Biblical Hebrew Forum

[rob acosta <robacosta AT hotmail.com>]

Jim
   You wrote:

  “ Genesis
13: 18 does not say “from place to place”.  Rather, Genesis
13: 18 simply says Y)HL, meaning “to move one’s tent””

   Was is your
authoritative source? I have several times now quoted 
authoritative
sources and the interpretation of at least  two Bible commentaries including 
Adam
Clarke's.
 “Abram
removed his tent - Continued to travel and pitch in different places,
till at last he fixed his tent in the plain, or by the oak, of Mamre,
“





You are the man
who claims camels die in Hebron because it's too cold in the winter.  I think 
it is understandable if I ask for documentation.

  You haven't
responded to the commentaries at this point.

You wrote:
'On the contrary, an essential part of my theory of the case is that Abraham  
d-i-d  indeed “obey God's command to walk the land” (and, for that matter, 
Abraham obeys all other divine commandments as well).“The minute Lot was 
reduced to living in a cave, Abraham was off like a flash to far-off GRR.”
   The order was given in Genesis 13:17? Isaac was born about 20 years later. 
This is what you call obedience?   Would your mother have let you wait 20 
years to carry out the trash? .   You wrote:   “Abraham could only perfect 
his claim to all of Canaan, and have Sarah bear Isaac, by obeying the divine  
  commandment of Genesis 13: 17 by walking all the long way up   north to 
GRR/Galilee and interacting with Abimelek.”
    What does “perfect his claim to all Canaan”..mean? Did Abraham have to 
practice? Was there some sort of ritualhe couldn't get straight for two 
decades?  Please give us a coherent explanation of “perfecting his claim” and 
why it it necessary to go north in order for Sarah to get pregnant.  That 
also puzzle me.Why are you obsessed with Lot who was never promised Canaan 
and knew it?What is this fantasy of a "provisional claim" you say Lot had on 
Canaan? Where is the verse?  Any verse...even half a verse...And what of poor 
Eliezer of Damascus and Ishmael who had more than a "provisional claim"...the 
kid was HEIR apparentand ended up in the desert. You give Lot supremacy over 
Ishmael which makes no sense at all.Yet you say the story of Abraham's 
journeys around Canaan in the Dead Sea Scrolls is "creative fantasy".  You 
repeatedly mention  Abimelech, let's review the story.
  You claim the Abimelech of Abraham is the same as the Abi Milku of the 
Amarna letters   who was a mayor of Tyre  appointed by Akhenaten   You claim 
the similarity in names, and the fact Abi Milku experienced “water problems” 
as you put is your "proof"   they were one and the same.

   Just as a refresher, you have also claimed Genesis 14 is a description of 
events in the Amarna age,  specifically when King Suppiluliumas conquers 
Kadesh...You claim it was King Suppi who was one of the"four against five" 
who kidnapped Lot.   
   Ok, Some facts. 
  Tyre was, of course, an island city with no connection to the main land 
until   Alexander the Great built the causeway.  The encyclopedia Britannica 
says that Tyre was “without water or vegetation” until   Alexander.
   Abi Milku ruled the city of Tyre but not the coastal  towns as they had 
they're own mayors. 
   You would then have us believe Abraham took a boat to Tyre  along with his 
cattle and got into some dispute over  some nonexistent wells on the island, 
isn't that correct? 
   Next: Tyre depended on Ishu for both its water and timber for heat and 
cooking to be brought in by boats.     Ushu also provide land for burials.
 When Zimredda captured Ushu he cut off Tyre's supply of water and 
timber.This is what Abi Milku is complaining about in the Amarna letters, not 
wells as you claim, but not being allowed to get water from the mainland. He 
wrote in EA 154:
   “Moreover, since the departure of the troops of the king, my lord, from 
me, the ruler of Siduna does not allow me or my  people to go to land to 
fetch wood or to fetch water for drinking.” 
  This was Abi Milku's “water problem” which was in no way similar to the 
incidents between Abimelech and Abraham...nor would any one who knows history 
have linked the two. Abraham could not have interacted from the mainland over 
water with a ruler of an island.
   Makes zero sense...
   But let's continue. You claim Lot was rescued by Abraham in year 14 of 
Akhenaten.
  You then claim Abraham spends at least 12 years in Hebron where 'nothing 
happens" until Lot is in a cave and Abraham goes to Abimilech.
   Well, I think everyone can see this one coming as easy as ABC
   A. Lot's is rescue takes place before the birth of Ishmael (the forgotten 
man in your theory)  your year 14 of Akhenaten . About this same time Abi 
Milku is having “water problems”according to the Amarna Letters.
  B. Isaac is born about 15 years after Lot's rescue and Abraham zooms to 
interact with Abimelech” according to you.
   Only problem is, the Amarna age was only but about 20 years long and 
scholars believe Abi Milku was likely murdered   before the death of 
Akhenaten as his letters abruptly cease.
   By your scenario Abraham rushes up to a man who has been dead at least 10 
years. The Amarna age is over and not only is    King Akhenaten dead by now, 
but so it King Tut and King Suppiluliumas.
   To make your “controversial theory”  Lot's rescue, and Isaac's birth must 
all take place within a couple of years, no time for Ishmael,  ...so  Abraham 
can interact  with  a dead man  about wells on an island with no water at 
all.   Jim, it's beyond logic how you came up with this theory.
   You cannot shoehorn two events separated by at least 15 years i.e Lot's 
rescue and Isaac's birth into an Armana age  that was almost over by the time 
Abi Milku had his “water problems”.    
    To say you have a credibility problem is an understatement. .

Rob Acosta


   
  


From: JimStinehart AT aol.com
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:30:02 -0400
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Genesis 13:18  Appositional Phrase vs. Adjectival 
Phrase
To: robacosta AT hotmail.com; b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org








Rob: 1.  You wrote:  “I stated , based on the works of others that13:18 means 
‘So Abraham moved his tents from place to place, then settled in Hebron’….” 
Genesis 13: 18 does not say “from place to place”.  Rather, Genesis 13: 18 
simply says Y)HL, meaning “to move one’s tent”.  Abram went down the mountain 
after hearing YHWH’s words and promptly moved, without further ado, to the 
Patriarchs’ XBRWN.  That’s what the Biblical text says, and that’s what it 
means. 2.  You wrote:  “You claim Abraham did not actually obey God's command 
to walk the land.” On the contrary, an essential part of my theory of the 
case is that Abraham  d-i-d  indeed “obey God's command to walk the land” 
(and, for that matter, Abraham obeys all other divine commandments as well).  
The minute Lot was reduced to living in a cave, Abraham was off like a flash 
to far-off GRR.  Abraham could only perfect his claim to all of Canaan, and 
have Sarah bear Isaac, by obeying the divine commandment of Genesis 13: 17 by 
walking all the long way up north to GRR/Galilee and interacting with 
Abimelek. 3.  The Genesis Apocryphon was composed well over a thousand years 
after the composition of the truly ancient Patriarchal narratives, and is an 
imaginative commentary.  By that time, Biblical analysts were relying on the 
post-exilic work of II Chronicles 14: 13-14 to think that the Patriarchs’ GRR 
was located in southwest Judah.  On that southern Hebrew theory of the case, 
Genesis did not appear to show Abraham as honoring the divine commandment of 
Genesis 13: 17 to walk the length of Canaan, and so a grand trip around the 
known world was dreamed up, having no Biblical basis whatsoever.  Analysts 
today teach that after splitting from Lot, Abraham never went north of Bethel 
the rest of his long life, which is just as wrong as the Genesis Apocryphon 
dreaming up a worldwide journey for Abram.  Based on item #80 of the mid-15th 
century BCE Thutmose III list of places in Canaan, and Amarna Letter EA 256, 
and the Akkadian word for “rolling”, GRR is the Late Bronze Age rendering of 
Galilee, which only after the Bronze Age came to be rendered as GLL or GLYL, 
in all cases referring to the “rolling” hills of Galilee.  On that historical 
basis, we can see that Abraham did indeed obey the divine commandment at 
Genesis 13: 17 in full. 4.  If you’re interested in how today’s leading 
Genesis scholar explains Abraham’s move to GRR, here it is: “This is an 
astonishing episode.  It seems incredible that Abraham should make the same 
dreadful mistake again:  visiting a foreign country, he passes his wife off 
as his sister.  …Indeed, when challenged by Abimelek, he resorts to lying, 
claiming he described Sarah as his sister wherever they went.  …Thus, this 
incident makes us realize that Abraham is not such a saint as we might have 
concluded from chap. 18….”  Gordon Wenham, “Genesis 16-50” (1994), at p. 75. 
So when scripture shows Abraham as righteously obeying the divine commandment 
of Genesis 13: 17 by moving to GRR and interacting with Abimelek, modern 
analysts characterize that, believe it or not, as being a “dreadful mistake” 
on Abraham’s part.  Modern analysts in fact have no idea whatsoever why 
Abraham moves to GRR the minute Lot is reduced to living in a cave.  
Incredibly, they write it off as being “an astonishing episode” that is a 
“dreadful mistake”, when in fact the reality is exactly the opposite, as 
Abraham is consistently righteous to a fault. 5.  Note also that Abram never 
elbowed Lot aside, though Abram had the power to do so.  Abram did not use 
his 318 armed men at Genesis 14: 14 to push Lot out of Canaan.   When Lot was 
taken as a hostage, Abram did not leave Lot to his fate, but rather risked 
Abram’s own life to make a daring rescue of Lot.  And when YHWH tells Abraham 
of YHWH’s plan to destroy iniquitous Sodom, Abraham goes out of his way (in 
the second half of chapter 18 of Genesis, where Prof. Wenham sees Abraham as 
acting like “a saint”) to make sure that Sodom will not be destroyed if as 
few as 10 innocent people are living there, with Abraham of course knowing 
that Lot and Lot’s family were living in Sodom.  Abraham by this point knows 
that Sarah will not bear Isaac, and Abraham will not be able to claim all of 
Canaan, until and unless Lot’s provisional claim to the northern two-thirds 
of Canaan is eliminated.  But Abraham admirably is unwilling to push Lot 
aside himself and, rather, properly waits until YHWH determines that Lot’s 
lack of affirmative opposition to Sodom’s turn to the dark side after chapter 
14 of Genesis means that Lot has forfeited any and all claim to Canaan.  Lot 
is reduced to living in a cave by divine action, Abraham then immediately 
moves to GRR, and almost immediately Sarah gets pregnant with Isaac.  That’s 
all in the Biblical text, with no creative, fanciful commentary being needed. 
Nor is that grand sequence a “dreadful mistake”!  The reason why post-exilic 
and all subsequent analysts have failed to see this is because they rely on 
II Chronicles as to its post-exilic ultra-southerly retroactive 
re-interpretation of the geographical locations of GRR and XCCN TMR, instead 
of looking to Bronze Age sources for the historical meaning of those key 
geographical terms that in fact refer to places way up north. Jim 
StinehartEvanston, Illinois