Biblical Hebrew Forum

[David Kolinsky <yishalom AT sbcglobal.net>]

George, 

I am often struck by how things I write are blatantly ignored by the members 
of BH.  Take for example this statement:
"2.  The concept of פרד usually indicates division into dispersion or 
spreading out. How does this fit your proposed etymology?" 

The uses of the verb PaRaD are as I stated before and below.  Other than 
Esther 3:8 (m'phorad) all of them mean one or more things "separated from" 
others.  It is only in Esther that your definition of "dispersion / spreading 
out" can be found.  If you would, please justify / explain your statement 
with concrete references from the Tanakh.

paal: to separate, divide (Gn2:10);  
niphal: be aloof (Pr18:1);  deserted (Pr19:4)
piel: to go off to the side (Hs4:14) 
hiphil: to separate, set apart (Gn13:9;30:40)(KgII2:11)(Pr16:28) 
hitpael: (moved aside) to be out of joint (Ps22:15;92:10)
A PaRDaeS is an area that is set apart from another.

As for the Samekh, how do you explain the samekh in S'PhaRaD = spain, Have 
you never heard someone explain its etymology as "a land set far off"

What is the earliest documented source of the use of the Persian equivalent? 


As for my oblique concept that Iron might be of primary use in making holes, 
I refer you to the wikipedia entry for iron: " Meteoric iron....was often 
used to forge weapons and tools...Items that were likely made of iron by 
Egyptians date from 2500 to 3000 BC.[30] Iron had a distinct advantage over 
bronze in warfare implements. It was much harder and more durable than 
bronze,"  As far as I know the goal of a weapon is to incapacitate an enemy 
by making holes.  I could be wrong but most tools of that time had the 
function of smashing, shaping (a form of smashing) and making holes.

Cordially,

David Kolinsky
Monterey CA


--- On Tue, 3/8/11, George Athas <George.Athas AT moore.edu.au> wrote:

From: George Athas <George.Athas AT moore.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Fw: Re:  Pardaes and barzel
To: "B-Hebrew" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 10:19 PM

Hi David!

There are many issues with your proposal for פרדס.


  1.  If the underlying root is פרד, where did the samekh come from? This is 
completely irregular in Hebrew.
  2.  The concept of פרד usually indicates division into dispersion or 
spreading out. How does this fit your proposed etymology? And again, whence 
the samekh?
  3.  I think you'll find that פרדס is unattested in any other Semitic 
language before a late date.
  4.  It's much easier to explain the vocalisation shifts from Persian into 
Aramaic and then into Hebrew, than to propose a Hebrew original that moves 
into the other languages.
  5.  If the word is originally Hebrew, how did it disseminate into Persian? 
What's the connection there?

As for your proposal on ברזל:


  1.  The root ברז means to make a hole. I'm not sure how this is explicitly 
related to iron. I'm guessing you're seeing iron as a tool for making holes, 
but this is somewhat oblique in my opinion. But that's just my opinion.
  2.  The ברז theory does not have many subscribers in the scholarly world, 
probably because the word just doesn't look Semitic. And if it doesn't look 
Semitic, and it can be explained as a loanword, then we have to consider 
seriously the likelihood that it's actually a loanword.
  3.  It has been argued (thought I can't remember by whom) that there is an 
underlying Hittite word. This would make sense historically, since knowledge 
of working iron probably came from the northern regions where the Hittites 
were.


GEORGE ATHAS
Moore Theological College (Sydney, Australia)
www.moore.edu.au


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