Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Pere Porta <pporta7 AT gmail.com>]

>
> (YL)
>
> Isaac is not going to agree, but I would think that the dagesh is meant to
> compensate for the loss of the Yod.
>
> (PP) Do you know whether there are other analogous cases in the Hebrew
language?
I mean nouns like 'bayit' having a plural like 'battiym'.

Regards

Pere Porta
(Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain)

>
> Yigal Levin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Pere Porta
> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 4:57 PM
> To: Randall Buth
> Cc: Hebrew
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Why dagesh in batey?
>
> Hello, all.
> I'm wondering why noun 'bayit', house, takes a dagesh within the tav in its
> plural form (in both absolute and construct.)
>
> Look at Am 3:15, where both plural kinds appear.
>
> Is there a good reason for this dagesh?
>
> Pere Porta
> (Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain)
>
>
>
>
> 2010/10/27 Randall Buth <randallbuth AT gmail.com>
>
> > >> Since you proposed this to Pere
> > >> it would only be curtious to provide him with your proposed form.
> > >
> > [KR]
> > > The “proposed form” is the word as written. Without the Masoretic
> points.
> > >
> > >>
> > [RB]
> > >> So without a proposed and supported form
> > >> there is nothing to discuss. Just how do you propose to take a
> > >> root alef.yod.dalet and produce a pi``el participle spelled
> > >> mem.alef.dalet?
> > >
> > > Was that a tri-literal or a bi-literal root? The concept that all
> > Biblical
> > > Hebrew verbs have tri-literal roots is “first year Hebrew” which I
> > question,
> > > and for good reason. If bi-literal root, just as written.
> >
> > First, you referred to a noun with alef.yod.dalet., a tri-litteral root.
> >
> > Secondly, a 'bi-litteral pi``el' is non-communicative as it stands.
> >
> > What in the world is it supposed to sound like and why would it
> > be called a pi``el?
> > A pi``el? what kind of morphology is a pi``el?
> > You don't have a structural length phoneme
> > in the middle in your system, so what is it?
> >
> > We do have 'two-letter' "pi``el-types"s, but they get their
> > middle length through reduplication:
> > kilkel, siksek, tsiftsef, kirker, ti`ta`, etc.
> > None of which supports m.alef.dalet as a "pi``el".
> >
> > This raises a question,
> > why do you have a category "pi``el"?
> > It's from the Masoretes !
> > You are free to invent your own language without a pi``el
> > category.
> > You don't have any phonemic consonantal length to deal with.
> > You can attribute verbs with 'm' prefixes to hif`il, and those without
> 'm',
> > to either Qal QATAL or Hif`il YIQTOL.
> > And you aren't constrained with having to explain
> > correspondences within and with Arabic, Syriac, Mishnaic Hebrew,
> > and Masoretic Hebrew, and Akkadian and Ugaritic. (They do all
> > have lengthened middle-letter binyanim. And none of them would
> > support m.'.d. as a "pi``el". But since none of these are consonantal
> > BH, you could ignor them and declare them irrelevant. [this doesn't
> > make it true, but you could do it.])
> >
> > Or, otherwise, you will need to explain how a two-consonant root can be
> > a pi``el, whatever that ends up being in your system.
> > Without an explanation and definition of the pi``el morphology, the
> > proposal
> > of an 'undefined pi``el' becomes gibberish//charabiya.
> >
> > So please be a little clearer with your definitions of pi``el.
> >
> > --
> > Randall Buth, PhD
> > www.biblicalulpan.org
> > randallbuth AT gmail.com
> > Biblical Language Center
> > Learn Easily - Progress Further - Remember for Life
> >  _______________________________________________
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> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Pere Porta
> "Ei nekrói ouk eguéirontai, fágomen kai píomen áurion gar apothnéskomen"
> (1Cor 15:32)
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-- 
Pere Porta
"Ei nekrói ouk eguéirontai, fágomen kai píomen áurion gar apothnéskomen"
(1Cor 15:32)