Biblical Hebrew Forum

[davedonnelly1 AT juno.com]

On Thu Jul 15 11:10:51 EDT 2010 
Vadim Cherny vadimcherny at gmail.com wrote: 
Dear Listmembers,
What is the evidence for short vowels before the Masoretes? 

Matres lectionis, ok, they were there, but what is the evidence for
patah/ 
kamatz, tzere/hirek, holam/shuruk differentiation?
Vadim Cherny
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Dave Donnelly writes:
I once ran across an article that stated 
that the Masoretes pointed their first Masoretic text 
by simply listening to the Jewish oral tradition that existed at that
time.

When the Masoretes listened to how the Jewish reader pronounced unpointed
Hebrew words,
at that time,
the Masoretes immediately knew what type of vowel points they needed to
create,
so that the vocalized text they were about to invent,
would sound like the Jewish Oral Tradition of that time.
for an unvocalized Hebrew Text.

It is my understanding that when YHWH stood alone in the unpointed Hebrew
text,
the Jewish Reader read that unpointed form of YHWH as "Adonai",
so it might be likely that the Masoretes would chose to point YHWH,
when it occured alone in their first Pointed text, 
in some specific way, 
to remind the Jewish reader that he or she was to read YHWH as "Adonai",
when YHWH stood alone in the pointed Hebrew Text.

It is my understanding that when YHWH either preceeded or followed
"Adonay" 
in the unpointed Hebrew Text,
the Jewish reader would read that particular unpointed form of YHWH as
"Elohim".

It seems at least probable Of course, in those occurrences, that the
Masoretes 
would chose to point YHWH with the precise same vowel points that they
used 
to point "Elohim".

It was absolutely no problem at all 
for the Masoretes to point YHWH with the precise same vowel points, 
as "Elohim" had.

Of course over the years, the vowel points that the Masoretes placed in
YHWH,
which we are led to believe were intended to indicate to the Jewish
reader that
he or she was to read that particular pointed variant of YHWH as
"Adonay",
have caused Bible Believing KJBO Christians to raise a few questions.
on their own Discussion Boards.

KJBO Christians insist that the vowel points of 
[yod-shewa-heh-defective holem-waw-qamets-heh] 
are the actual vowel points of God's name.

Of course KJBO Christians seem to be pretty much alone in their
belief!!!!!!!!!
Dave Donnelly
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>From George.Athas AT moore.edu.au  Sun Jul 18 23:41:32 2010
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From: George Athas <George.Athas AT moore.edu.au>
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Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:41:25 +1000
Thread-Topic: [b-hebrew] Pharaoh Khepera'a in Jeremiah 44:30
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Pharaoh Khepera'a in Jeremiah 44:30
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A slight aside to advise some caution about Kitchen's book mentioned by Uri=
. Much of what Kitchen writes in attacking the minimalist position is chara=
cterised more by vitriol than logical reasoning. I get the impression that =
he does not fully understand the minimalist position. I myself am not a min=
imalist (though, annoyingly, I'm often mistaken for one), but I find Kitche=
n's approach quite unscholarly at times, producing more 'heat' than 'light'=
.

My subjective 2 cents...

GEORGE ATHAS
Moore Theological College (Sydney, Australia)
www.moore.edu.au