Biblical Hebrew Forum

[davedonnelly1 AT juno.com]

Hi James Christian,

You wrote:

Hi Dave,

I've seen several of your messages to the list over the last year or so
and
they seem to be dominated with treatment of Yhwh tetragrammaton. However,
much as you have presented questions on the subject to the list at
various
periods I have yet to date still not managed to extract a position from
your
questions. Just what is it you are trying to prove with these kind of
questions? Are you in favour of Jehovah translation, Yahweh translation
or
something else?

Personally, I think the best translation is Yhwh. It's the only thing we
know for sure about the name.

James Christian
=================================================================
=================================================================
James,

Up until June 19, 2010, I was looking for the truth concerning what the
Masoretes had actually written,
concerning how [yod-shewa-he-defective holem-waw -qamets-he] was to be
read by a Jewish reader

Back in 2001 when I started to seek the truth concerning this issue,
scholarly sources like the Jewish Encyclopedia of 1905 and the
Encyclopedia Britannica of 1911 were teaching that the Majorettes had
placed the vowel points from "Adonis" into "YAHWEH" to indicate to the
Jewish Reader that he or she was to read [yod-shewa-he-defective
holem-waw -qamets-he] as "Adonai" and not as Jehovah. 

I struggled with this for several years until during the last few years
when the writings of Gesenius became available on the Internet, and I
realized that Gesenius acknowledged  [UP FRONT] that the vowel points of
"Adonai" and the vowel points of   [yod-shewa-he-defective holem-waw
-qamets-he] WERE NOT EXACTLY THE SAME. 

For me this changed everything, since what I had considered to be the
"standard defence" for why  [yod-shewa-he-defective holem-waw -qamets-he]
was NOT to be translated as Jehovah, NO  LONGER SEEMED TO BE VALID, IN MY
LESS THAN HUMBLE OPINION.

However at this time I became aware from multiple sources outside of 
b-hebrew [and later by b-hebrew]
that the evidence being presented as to why [yod-shewa-he-defective
holem-waw -qamets-he] was not meant to be translated as, or read as, or
rendered as Jehovah,  had changed drastically

And then on June 19, 2010 I started the following new thread by writing. 


>>>
Recently two separate members of B-hebrew discussed translations of Psalm
16:2 and Psalm 110:1 in which the translation "Jehovah" was used. Neither
member criticized the use of Jehovah in the translation of these two
verses. 
 

Is it now acceptable to use Jehovah in the translation of these two
psalms???????
>>>

So James, I assume that both you and I noticed that only Yitzhak Sapir
raised some serious issues about the translating of one of the six
variants of YHWH found in the Leningrad Codex,  as Jehovah!!!!!

But Yitzhak Sapir  had serious reservations as to whether this issue
should be discussed further

Yitzhak Sapir wrote:

>>>

Hello Dave,

When I quoted that particular translation, I felt extremely
uncomfortable.

For all kinds of various reasons, though, I left it as it was.
Primarily, I didn't want to reopen a discussion on Jehovah vs Yahweh vs
the Lord 
which would have taken the discussion off-track.  

Also among the reasons, it was a quote and I felt that even if I had an
extreme discomfort with his quote 
it is best to quote verbatim than to change the author's own words.

Yitzhak Sapir

>>>

 Dave Donnelly,

P.S.

I would be happy to have this discussion reopened and to invite Jason
Hare and Steve Miller 
to express their views on this issue..
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Common words in the Patriarchal narratives started out with defective=20
spelling, which was later updated in many cases to full spelling.  However=
, that=20
process of updating spelling likely did  n-o-t  happen in most cases with=
=20
proper names in the Patriarchal narratives.  [For example, )B-RM was never=
=20
updated to )B-RWM.]  This is especially the case regarding foreign proper=
=20
names.  Later editors were very reluctant to update the spelling of a fore=
ign=20
proper name in the Patriarchal narratives, either because they weren=E2=80=
=99t sure how=20
to update it, or because they thought that a foreign proper name should be=
=20
left in its original form.  This thread will examine the foreign proper na=
me=20
(PRWN in chapter 23 of Genesis on the basis that (PRWN is likely the=20
original, so-called =E2=80=9Cdefective=E2=80=9D spelling of this Biblical=
 name.
=20
1.  Foreign Name.  (PRWN is probably being presented to us as a foreign=20
proper name.  Genesis 23: 3 says that the people of whom (PRWN is a leadin=
g=20
member are the =E2=80=9Csons of the Hittites=E2=80=9D.  The Hittites were=
 foreigners who did=20
not speak a Semitic language.  If the =E2=80=9Csons of the Hittites=E2=80=
=9D represent the=20
Hurrians [which would make good historical sense, for a short period of ti=
me=20
in the mid-14th century BCE after most Hurrians, in Syria, were forcibly=
=20
made part of the new Hittite Empire], the Hurrians also did not speak a Se=
mitic=20
language.  =E2=80=9CSons of the Hittites=E2=80=9D seems an odd name for [w=
est=20
Semitic-speaking] Amorites [though there were Amorite landowners in Canaan=
], and it=E2=80=99s=20
hard to see how such a phrase could possibly fit indigenous Canaanites. =
 These=20
people seem to be foreigners [while nevertheless being landowners in the=
=20
southern half of Canaan].
=20
2.  Final =E2=80=93N =3D Ni.  In a foreign proper name, -ni or =E2=80=93nu=
 is routinely=20
brought into the Bible as simply =E2=80=93N.  Thus the name of the city wh=
ere Abraham=E2=80=99s=20
father died, Haran, is Xari-ni in Hurrian, and Xarra-nu in Akkadian, but=
=20
that final suffix =E2=80=93ni or =E2=80=93nu is simply =E2=80=93N in Bibli=
cal Hebrew:  XR-N.  The=20
converse of that is that the final =E2=80=93N in (PRWN likely may mean =E2=
=80=93ni, which I=20
will henceforth represent as Ni.
=20
3.  The Vav/W.  If the final =E2=80=93N is actually Ni, which is very like=
ly per #2=20
above, that then puts tremendous pressure on the W.  If the vav/W was in=
=20
the original text, which is very likely, then this is starting to look lik=
e a=20
3-syllable foreign name:  (P-RW-Ni.  Certainly WNi makes no sense as a=20
discrete syllable.  So the W here is probably representing a vowel in the=
 foreign=20
language, rather than being a full-spelling late addition to the text.  Le=
t=E2=80=99
s represent that as an I [which may be the Hurrian true vowel I, in=20
interior position].  =E2=80=93RWN in the received text likely reflects =E2=
=80=93RI-Ni in the=20
underlying foreign language.
=20
4.  The Ayin.  If the foreign language here is Hurrian, that foreign=20
language has no ayin.  As such, the Hebrew ayin would presumably be repres=
enting=20
an important true vowel in the foreign language, call it E.  [It could=20
alternatively be the Hurrian true vowel I in initial position;  I and E ar=
e often=20
interchangeable in Hurrian.]  To represent the true vowel E [in the=20
important initial position, not being a prosthetic and not being in interi=
or=20
position], the best choice in Biblical Hebrew is ayin.  Old Biblical Hebre=
w has no=20
true vowel letter, and Hurrian has no ayin [whereas Hurrian, in addition=
 to=20
having true vowels, also has aleph, yod and vav, which would be the other=
=20
three possible choices in Hebrew].  So ayin is the logical choice here to=
=20
represent this important Hurrian true vowel E in initial position.
=20
5.  (PRWN =3D EP-RI-Ni.  On the foregoing analysis, the (PRWN that we see=
 in=20
the received text should not be viewed as being (P-RWN, as conventionally=
=20
viewed.  Rather, (PRWN in the received text should be viewed as being=20
EP-RI-Ni.  The keys are to see the final =E2=80=93N as being a discrete sy=
llable, -Ni, and=20
then realize that the vav/W is not a full-spelling late addition, but rath=
er=20
was there from day #1, representing a vowel in the foreign language, so th=
at=20
the discrete second syllable here is RW, representing RI in Hurrian.
=20
6.  Only Hurrian Word Known by All Hebrews.  In the Late Bronze Age, there=
=20
was one, and only one, Hurrian word that was known by all Hebrews.  It mea=
ns=20
=E2=80=9Cthe lord=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CHurrian princeling=E2=80=9D or, as=
 a proper name, could loosely be=20
paraphrased as =E2=80=9CMr. Great=E2=80=9D.  This extremely common Hurrian=
 word comes in=20
many varieties, one of which is:  ep-ri-ni.  [P and B and W are effectivel=
y=20
interchangeable in Hurrian, as are the vowels E and I.  Ep-ri, eb-ri, ib-r=
i,=20
ew-ri and iw-ri are all attested as meaning =E2=80=9Clord=E2=80=9D in Hurr=
ian.  There are=20
also many variations in the syllable division of this common Hurrian word,=
=20
especially once suffixes are added.  Note that when ep-ri, in any form,=20
appears in a Hurrian name, it=E2=80=99s always the first part of the name,=
 and then is=20
usually followed by a suffix.]
=20
We know from the Amarna Letters that in the 14th century BCE, a majority=
 of=20
landowners in Canaan were Hurrian lords [with Biblical Ephron being a=20
landowner in chapter 23 of Genesis]. So the famous Hurrian word for =E2=80=
=9Clord=E2=80=9D would=20
have been known by all the Hebrews at that time.  This Hurrian word may be=
=20
found at Amarna Letter EA 286: 7 from Abdi-Heba of Jerusalem [the second=
=20
half of whose name honors a Hurrian goddess].  What=E2=80=99s written ther=
e is EN-ri,=20
and in context the meaning must be =E2=80=9Clord=E2=80=9D.  The Sumerian=
 logogram EN means =E2=80=9C
lord=E2=80=9D, and ep-ri or eb-ri or ib-ri or ew-ri or iw-ri all mean =E2=
=80=9Clord=E2=80=9D in=20
Hurrian.  Wm. Moran notes at p. 327:  =E2=80=9CHurrian influence has also=
 been=20
suggested:  EN-ri =3D Hurrian iwri (ibri);  see Loretz, UF 6 (1974) p. 485=
, and=20
Jerusalem Scribe, p. 163, n. 52.=E2=80=9D  As the first part of a Hurrian=
 name, ep-ri is=20
also attested [with a P, and meaning =E2=80=9Clord=E2=80=9D] as Ep-ri-ba-t=
a.  A variant of=20
ep-ri, with the same meaning =E2=80=9Clord=E2=80=9D, is attested in Amarna=
 Letters EA 27 and=20
28 as pi-ri, in the Hurrian name [a diplomat from the Hurrian state of=20
NHRYM in eastern Syria] Pi-ri-iz-zi:  =E2=80=9CThe language represented by=
 this PN is=20
Hurrian.  Pi-ri-iz-zi is a hypocoristic name, composed of ewri =E2=80=98lo=
rd=E2=80=99 and=20
zzi, a (hypocoristic) suffix.=E2=80=9D  Richard Hess, =E2=80=9CAmarna Pers=
onal Names=E2=80=9D (1993),=20
at p. 125.  Note that in both versions of ep-ri [meaning =E2=80=9Clord=E2=
=80=9D] in the=20
Amarna Letters, the second syllable is =E2=80=93ri-, just as in the Biblic=
al version: =20
(P-RW-N[i], where RW in Hebrew there represents RI in Hurrian.  Indeed, th=
e=20
key to my analysis is that Biblical RW here is a discrete syllable,=20
representing RI in Hurrian.=20
=20
7.  (PRWN in chapter 23 of Genesis may well be representing EP-RI-Ni, whic=
h=20
in turn is the letter-for-letter equivalent of the only Hurrian word that=
=20
all the Hebrews in Late Bronze Age Canaan knew:  ep-ri-ni.  [The Hurrian=
=20
suffix =E2=80=93ni means =E2=80=9Cthe=E2=80=9D.]  As just noted, that Hurr=
ian word means =E2=80=9Cthe lord=E2=80=9D or=20
=E2=80=9Cthe Hurrian princeling=E2=80=9D or, more loosely, =E2=80=9CMr. Gr=
eat (Hurrian)=E2=80=9D.  As=20
such, that Hurrian word fits Biblical Ephron perfectly, as an imperious fo=
reign=20
magnate, an ethnic Hurrian landowner who is the most prominent member of=
=20
the =E2=80=9Csons of the Hittites=E2=80=9D in a Hurrian-dominated city in=
 southern Canaan. =20
The Hurrian great =E2=80=9Clord=E2=80=9D Ephron charges Abraham an arm and=
 a leg to sell a=20
bereaved Abraham a gravesite for Sarah.  =E2=80=9CEphron=E2=80=9D/(PRWN is=
 a 3-syllable=20
name, being a dead ringer for the Hurrian word ep-ri-ni, meaning =E2=80=9C=
the (Hurrian)=20
lord=E2=80=9D.  Ephron is a Hurrian.
=20
Jim Stinehart
Evanston, Illinois