Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Garth Grenache <garthgrenache AT hotmail.com>]

Dear Karl,

I asked> Can you demonstrate that omicron-upsilon ever represents a long 'o' 
followed by 'w' in Koine Greek?

To which you replied:
 
>1) I never made that claim.
>2) I am not an expert in Greek
>3) I find the arguments you have put forward unconvincing
>4) This is the B-Hebrew discussion forum
>5) There is evidence from Hebrew sources that the 19th century invention 
>that your argument is based on is wrong
>6) The original Hebrew pronunciation is lost, and we are not sure of the 
>Greek transliteration
>6a) There is still question as to the Greek pronunciation
>6b) The lack of certain consonants in Greek leads to questions as to how the 
>vowels were to be understood
> 6c) Is this a transliteration of a late, corrupted and/or dialectal Hebrew 
> pronunciation?
> 7) Therefore, there is no real reason to pursue this further, as we don?t 
> have enough data to answer the above questions.
 

In other words you can't demonstrate that OU ever represents what you are 
claiming it 'could'.  But we have shown that it would typically represent 
simply 'w' or 'uw' and you continue to deny though we give evidence.  You are 
content to make assertions that being 'no expert in Greek' and seeing 'no 
real reason to pursue this further', you are unable and unwilling to justify. 
 Yet you deny that what we demonstrate as probable and likely has any weight. 
 If you can measure weight, report weight.  If you can't measure weight, just 
say, "I don't know," -or don't say anything.  I have presented my 
understanding to this group to get expert feedback, not heckling.

Karl, it seems you do not have the prerequisite knowledge and understanding 
to judge of what is possible or probable with regards to the pronunciation of 
YHWH and to understand and weigh all the 'data' you have.  Therefore I agree 
with you discontinue your contribution to this discussion: it doesn't help 
people learn what can be learned for you to sit back and say 'I don't know 
and I'm no expert and I'm not convinced: therefore you're probably wrong and 
building an argument on shifty grounds.' 

Let those who want to learn and ask sensible questions consider the data.

Karl> About the only thing one can be pretty sure of, is that Gesenius was 
wrong.

He may have been: I reckon he was wrong.  But I wouldn't be 'pretty sure' of 
it from the data and non-'expert' reasonings that you've presented.  You've 
not proven him wrong in our eyes.  And unlike Gesenius, you are no expert in 
Greek or the history of Hebrew.  Maybe it is you who are wrong.

Garth.


                                          
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