Biblical Hebrew Forum

[davedonnelly1 <davedonnelly1 AT juno.com>]

Hi Robert Shannon Sumner,
You wrote:
>>>
Just a few observations:
1. No matter how logically consistent your arguments are, if you begin
with a false assumption you are still building a castle in the clouds. It
may be a well-constructed castle, it may be an enticing castle, but,
unless I really do not understand gravity, it will not be a particularly
safe castle.
>>>
Robert.
In my opinion, the "Yahweh" theory is based on the proposed Hebrew
punctuation by Gesenius, which possibly was first written in 1815 A.D. 
My oldest source providing evidence that Gesenius wrote
[yod-patah-heh-simple shewa-waw-segol-heh] is William Smith's 1863 "A
Dictionary of the Bible"
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/264290/YahwehfromSmithsBibleDiction
arylowres.JPG
If the link above does not work, try cutting and pasting it into your
browser.
Note that William Smith "Boldly" claims that a "Yeho" prefix can be
derived from "Yah:we"  in only 3 simple steps. 
[ The Jewish Encyclopedia of 1901-1906 presents the same evidence.] 
William Smith also writes that "There remains to be noticed the
suggestion of Gesenius that the form [yod-patah-heh-simple
shewa-waw-segol-heh], which he adopted, might be the Hiph. fut. of the
substantive verb. 
NOTE that William Smith only used two weasel word [i.e. "Suggestion" and
"might".]
However, if God's name is not actually "Yahweh". the "Yahweh" theory is
progressing very nicely in 1863.   
We are now [in 1863]only 42 years way from the publishing of the
Brown-Driver-Briggs Encyclopedia of 1905. 
I assume that the Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon of 1905 is the main source
through which the "Yahweh theory has been propagated
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/264290/bdbandstrong290.jpg
The link above takes you to the Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon of 1905 where
the editors BOLDLY state[without any weasel words] that "n.pr.dei" Yahweh
is the proper name of the God of Israel
Fast forward to 2010, and take a walk through almost any Christian Book
Store, and pick up almost any Study Bible, and look at the notes for
Exodus 6:3 or maybe Exodus 3:15, and you will be informed, with only one
or two weasel words, that the original pronunciation of God's name is
"probably" Yahweh [sometimes translated as "Jehovah".      
Of course in the image I provided of the B-D-B Lexicon, notice that
Hebrew word #3068 is shown as if it had the precise vowel points of
Adonai, except that the first vowel point of each word is different. I
realize that an explanation can be given as to why Hebrew Word #3068 and
Adonai do not have the same first vowel point, however, (Y)Jeho(W)ih does
have the precise same vowel point as Elohiym, proving, if nothing else, a
compound shewa can be placed under the yod in YHWH.
I have also read that the Masoretes did not place a hatef patah under the
yod in Hebrew Word #3068, because the Jewish reader might have accidently
read "Yahweh",as soon as he or she noticed that the YOD in YHWH had a
hatef patah under it. 
Why might a Jewish reader [before 1815 A.D.]have accidently read YHWH as
"Yahweh" if the name never existed until 1815 A.D. 
Question: When the B-D-B Lexicon was first published in 1905, was there
ever any negative article written about it, because it wrote that "Yahweh
is the proper name of the God of Israel.

Dave Donnelly 
____________________________________________________________
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>From davedonnelly1 AT juno.com  Sat Mar  6 09:28:54 2010
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Subject: [b-hebrew]  The logic of the Yahweh discussion (or lack thereof)
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Hi Rolf,

You wrote:

>>>
The Masoretes pointed YHWH with the 
vowels  e(a)-o-a because they probably  pronounced the name as )DNY. 

I have seen the argument that because of this we must conclude that 
the modern form Ye-ho-wa is wrong. 

This is a fallacious argument, 
because the name may very well have been pronounced like this by the 
Pharisees and the Morningbathers. 

What the Masoretes did is in this 
context irrelevant. 

"Their "wrong" pointing of the name may perhaps 
coincidentally parallel the old correct pronunciation of it."

>>>

Rolf,

You conclusion above is almost the same conclusion that Gerard Gertoux
reached in his paperback book where he tried to defend the name Yehowah.

Dave Donnelly
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>From furuli AT online.no  Sat Mar  6 09:51:01 2010
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Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 15:50:50 +0100
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From: Rolf Furuli <furuli AT online.no>
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] The logic of the Yahweh discussion (or lack thereof)
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Dear Dave,

My words that you quote were not meant to be a conclusion. They were 
rather meant to point out that the Masoretic pointing of YHWH cannot 
be used to exclude one possible way of pronouncing the name of God. 
As a matter of fact, the form Yahweh is a modern artificial 
construction, and there is absolutely no evidence in old Hebrew 
manuscripts in favor of this form. It does not follow from this that 
Yehowah was the original pronunciation- we simply do not know the 
original pronunciation.

However, the theophoric names in the Tanakh suggest that the YHWH had 
three syllables, and not two, as in Yahweh, and that the two first 
syllables were ye-ho, ye-hu, ya-ho, or ye-hu. Beyond these things 
there is only speculation. BTW, I would like to recommend F. E. 
Shaw's dissertation, "The Earliest Non-mystical Jewish use of IAW" 
San Francisco State University. 1990. It shows how widespread the use 
of the name was among Jews and other nations both in B.C.E. and in 
C.E.


Best regards,

Rolf Furuli
University of Oslo




>Hi Rolf,
>
>You wrote:
>
>>>>
>The Masoretes pointed YHWH with the
>vowels  e(a)-o-a because they probably  pronounced the name as )DNY.
>
>I have seen the argument that because of this we must conclude that
>the modern form Ye-ho-wa is wrong.
>
>This is a fallacious argument,
>because the name may very well have been pronounced like this by the
>Pharisees and the Morningbathers.
>
>What the Masoretes did is in this
>context irrelevant.
>
>"Their "wrong" pointing of the name may perhaps
>coincidentally parallel the old correct pronunciation of it."
>
>>>>
>
>Rolf,
>
>You conclusion above is almost the same conclusion that Gerard Gertoux
>reached in his paperback book where he tried to defend the name Yehowah.
>
>Dave Donnelly
>____________________________________________________________
>Hotel
>Hotel pics, info and virtual tours.  Click here to book a hotel online.
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