Biblical Hebrew Forum

[davedonnelly1 <davedonnelly1 AT juno.com>]

One question I have for the list is: What happened to the holem? Both 
Adonai
and Elohim have medial vav-holem. The common understanding of the  
transliteration Jehovah is the the "o" is derived from that medial 
holem.  It 
seems that I have seen YHWH written with the holem in the MT,  but a
cursory 
look did not find one. Can anyone explain this?
 
Thanks,
Ted Brownstein
_________________________________________________________________________
__
Jehovah occurs 6518 times in the  The Ben Chayyim Hebrew text of 1525
A.D.,
which underlies the Old Testament of the King James Bible.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/264290/bdbandstrong290.jpg

The holem after the first heh is a defective holem that has nothing to do
with the vav.

The defective holem that follows the first heh, is followed by an
ordinary vav with a qamets underneath it

The well respected Hebrew Scholar Gesenius acknowledges [up front] that
(Y)Jehovah and Adonai do not have the precise same vowel points.  If the
Masoretes had pointed YHWH with the precise same vowel points as are
found in Adonai, they would have created the hybrid name "(Y)Jahovah not
(Y)Jehovah.

Dave Donnelly
____________________________________________________________
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>From davedonnelly1 AT juno.com  Fri Dec 25 19:05:51 2009
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Subject: [b-hebrew]  Patriarchs used YHWH's name?
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Vadim Cherny wrote in his "Meaning and pronunciation of the
Tetragrammaton":  
"Clement’s Iaou is a variant of Iao; omicron-upsilon replaces omega.
Iaouai might be Iaou with suffix of duality -ai, modeled upon Elokai.
Iaoue could derive from Iaouai; ai->e like the suffix of duality -ai
becoming plural suffix -e (ei to close open stressed syllable in
continuous speech; cf. Ashkenazic do[i]vor). Less likely seems Peter
Kirk’s suggestion that Iaoue could be I.a.ou.e; that could be iahwe or
spelling of YHWH with e for final hey. Iaoue transliteration is mentioned
by commentator, but not actually found." 
The only surviving manuscript, of Clement's Stromata V6:34 is the Codex L
( 11th century Greek Codex Laurentianus V 3), which preserves "Iaou" not
"Iaoue",
However, Otto Stählin  in 1905 wrote a critical edition of  Clement of
Alexandria's Stromata V6:34 in which he claims that Catena's exist which
clain that Clement wrote "Iaoue" not "Iaou?
Dave Donnelly
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>From TedBro AT aol.com  Fri Dec 25 21:59:42 2009
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Vowel Subsitution
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Hi, Dave:
 
Interesting discussion.
 
I have two versions of the Hebrew text a Stuttgartensia with critical  
apparatus and JPS bilingual Bible. Obviously I have not done an exhaustive  
search, but checking random occurrences of the tetragrammaton, none are  
pointed 
with defective holem. Does the Ben Chayyim text have the holem in  all 6518 
occurrences? What happened to it in the JPS, etc?
 
On your reference to Gesenius' comment on the pronunciation of the  Name, 
could you provide the citation? I'm not sure how much you know about  Hebrew 
vowels and don't intend to be pedantic, but the patach-hateph under the  
aleph in Adonai is essentially the same vowel as the shva under the yod in  
the 
MT of YHWH. Only gutterals aleph and ayin can take half-vowels and these 
are  the equivalent of a vocal shva under any other consonant. Frankly, it 
seems most  doubtful that Gesenius would suggest Yahovah as the hypothetical 
result of  pointing YHWH with the vowels of adonai.
 
Doesn't the very fact that the MT vowels change defending on whether the  
Qere is adonai or elohim show that the present vowels are the result of the  
tradition not to pronounce the name?
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/264290/bdbandstrong290.jpg


Peace,
Ted Brownstein
 
 
In a message dated 12/25/2009 6:30:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
davedonnelly1 AT juno.com writes:

One  question I have for the list is: What happened to the holem? Both  
Adonai
and Elohim have medial vav-holem. The common understanding of  the  
transliteration Jehovah is the the "o" is derived from that  medial 
holem.  It 
seems that I have seen YHWH written with the  holem in the MT,  but a
cursory 
look did not find one. Can anyone  explain this?

Thanks,
Ted  Brownstein
_________________________________________________________________________
__
Jehovah  occurs 6518 times in the  The Ben Chayyim Hebrew text of  1525
A.D.,
which underlies the Old Testament of the King James  Bible.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/264290/bdbandstrong290.jpg

The  holem after the first heh is a defective holem that has nothing to do
with  the vav.

The defective holem that follows the first heh, is followed by  an
ordinary vav with a qamets underneath it

The well respected  Hebrew Scholar Gesenius acknowledges [up front] that
(Y)Jehovah and Adonai  do not have the precise same vowel points.  If the
Masoretes had  pointed YHWH with the precise same vowel points as are
found in Adonai,  they would have created the hybrid name "(Y)Jahovah  not
(Y)Jehovah.

Dave  Donnelly