Biblical Hebrew Forum

[dana densmore <danadensmore AT hotmail.com>]

[b-hebrew] Sorting senses of $M(


George Athos requested that I repost this with a subject line (oops, sorry!)

Shalom, all.
I put out a query a couple weeks ago that didn't get any response, but I'm 
still pondering the question and would still welcome your thoughts.  Maybe 
the question was too general, so let me narrow it to one example.  I asked:


"One thing I'm wondering about is whether you all find in Tanakh a sense of 
"listen" in the English meaning of active listening, not just passive 
hearing, and distinguished from the use of "listen" as a synonym for "obey".  
Does that sense appear in Tanakh, as you read it? 
 
"For example, take the Ex.19:5 phrase )M $MW( T$M(W BQLY.   Are we dealing 
with "if you, listening, listen to my voice" / "If you really listen to my 
voice" ?  Or must we say "If you really hear my voice"?  Or "If you really 
obey my voice"?   Hearing of course follows if we listen to a voice that is 
there, and obedience should follow (and is implied by the following phrase, 
"and guard my covenant").  But what activity is being described in the first 
part of the protasis ("if" condition) of Ex 19:5?"


I mean this as a question about Biblical Hebrew, not theology.  Can we, based 
on the way we find the root used in the text, say something useful about the 
semantic range of this word in Biblical Hebrew?  
Thanks!
Dana Densmore


[b-hebrew] Sorting senses of $M(‏




From:


b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of dana densmore 
(danadensmore AT hotmail.com)




Sent:


Sun 4/12/09 3:55 AM




To:


b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org




Dear b-hebrew listers,




I'm hoping that some of you might be willing to help me with a question about 
$M(. 




I am wondering whether it is possible to get a first approximation 
understanding of how to distinguish between the activities of hearing, 
listening, and obeying, and some guidance in translation, possibly using 
binyan and/or the presence of a following preposition---B:, L:, or )L.




Of course the context is the main determinant, and one must start by 
carefully pondering that. But there are places where the context doesn't 
unequivocally suggest a particular one of those senses, and interpretation 
must come in. But a lot can seem to ride on those distinctions in the English 
and one wants a translation that doesn't send folks (including onself) 
galloping down the wrong road.




Of course those senses are inter-related and it's clear enough why the same 
Hebrew word would cover that range. Indeed, the same overlap of sense is 
there in those English words. But there are also at times significant 
distinctions in meanings and connotations of the English words.




One thing I'm wondering about is whether you all find in Tanakh a sense of 
"listen" in the English meaning of active listening, not just passive 
hearing, and distinguished from the use of "listen" as a synonym for "obey". 
Does that sense appear in Tanakh, as you read it? 




For example, take the Ex.19:5 phrase )M $MW( T$M(W BQLY. Are we dealing with 
"if you, listening, listen to my voice" / "If you really listen to my voice" 
? Or "If you really hear my voice"? Or "If you really obey my voice"? I've 
always leaned towards the first ("listen") in understanding this passage. 
Hearing of course follows if we listen to a voice that is there, and 
obedience should follow (and is implied by the following phrase, "and guard 
my covenant"). But what activity is being described in the first part of the 
protasis ("if" condition) of Ex 19:5?




Thanks for any help you can give!!
Dana Densmore
>From kwrandolph AT gmail.com  Sun Apr 26 00:03:51 2009
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Yitzhak:

When you lower the argument from an honest disagreement to a personality
spat, I will not go there. I will not answer your last posting.

Karl W. Randolph.