Biblical Hebrew Forum

[LM Barre <l_barre AT yahoo.com>]

We know from the prophet Haggai that the building of the temple excited 
intense messianic fever:
 
2 Speak now to Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel, governor of Judea, and to Joshua 
son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and to the remnant of the people, and say, 
3 Who is left among you that saw this house in its former glory? How does it 
look to you now? Is it not in your sight as nothing? 4 Yet now take courage, 
O Zerubbabel, says Yahweh; take courage, O Joshua, son of Jehozadak, the high 
priest; take courage, all you people of the land, says Yahweh; work, for I am 
with you, says Yahweh of Armies, 5 according to the promise that I made you 
when you came out of Egypt. My spirit abides among you; do not fear. 6 For 
thus says Yahweh of Armies: Once again, in a little while, I will shake the 
heavens and the earth and the sea and the dry land; 7 and I will shake all 
the nations, so that the treasure of all nations shall come, and I will fill 
this house with splendor, says the Yahweh of Armies. 8 The silver is mine, 
and the gold is mine, says Yahweh of Armies. 9
 The latter splendor of this house shall be greater than the former, says 
Yahweh of Armies; and in this place I will give prosperity, says the Yahweh 
of Armies.
 
 
And also this prophecy from Haggai:
 
20 The word of Yahweh came a second time to Haggai on the twenty-fourth day 
of the month, 21 "Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying, I am about 
to shake the heavens and the earth, 22 and to overthrow the throne of 
kingdoms; I am about to destroy the strength of the kingdoms of the nations, 
and overthrow the chariots and their riders; and the horses and their riders 
shall go down, every one by the sword of his fellow. 23 On that day, says 
Yahweh of Armies, I will take you, O Zerubbabel my servant, the son of 
She-al'ti-el, says Yahweh, and make you like a signet ring; for I have chosen 
you, says the Yahweh of Armies."
 
 
Needless to say, the expectation of Zerubbabel's political Messianism did not 
materialize. 
 
***
 
It appears that we have a text that relates to the proto-apocalyptic movement 
discussed above in Isaiah 53:
 
1 Who has believed what we have heard? And to whom has the arm of Yahweh been 
revealed? 2 For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out 
of dry ground; he had no form or majesty that we should look at him, nothing 
in his appearance that we should desire him. 3 He was despised and rejected 
by others; a man of suffering and acquainted with infirmity; and as one from 
whom others hide their faces he was despised and we held him of no account.  
4 Surely he has borne our infirmities and carried our diseases; yet we 
accounted him stricken, struck down by God, and afflicted. 5 But he was 
wounded for our transgressions, crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the 
punishment that made us whole, and by his bruises we are healed. 6 All we 
like sheep have gone astray; we have all turned to our own way, and Yahweh 
has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, and he was 
afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; like a lamb that is
 led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, 
so he did not open his mouth. 8 By a perversion of justice he was taken away. 
Who could have imagined his future? For he was cut off from the land of the 
living, stricken for the transgression of my people. 9 They made his grave 
with the wicked and his tomb  with the rich,  although he had done no , and 
there was no deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it was the will of Yahweh to crush 
him with pain.  When you make his life an offering for sin, he shall see his 
offspring, and shall prolong his days; through him the will of Yahweh shall 
prosper. 11 Out of his anguish he shall see light; he shall find satisfaction 
through his knowledge. The righteous one, my Servant, shall make many 
righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will allot him 
a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; 
because he poured out himself to , and was numbered with
 the transgressors; yet he [actually] bore the sin of many, and made 
intercession for the transgressors.
 
 
A key observation I wish to make is that Zerubbabel is called, "my Servant," 
a term that is applied in Isaiah to several parties.  I would identify this 
servant with Zerubbabel because the literary genre of this Isaiah text seems 
to be one of an official, state eulogy over the fallen ruler.  Verse 8 most 
clearly indicates that the subject of the eulogy was arrested, tried and 
executed for sedition under the Persians just as Jesus was by the Romans.   
Thus, as with Jesus, we have an earlier instance of failed messianic 
proto-Apocalypticism that is remarkably similar.  In both cases, the Temple 
played an important and necessary role.  While for Zerubbabel, the building 
of the Second Temple signaled the fulfillment of his apocalyptic 
expectations, for Jesus the Temple did not need to be rebuilt but rather only 
cleansed.  In both cases, the readiness of the Temple was a prerequisite for 
the coming Messianic rule. 
 
The Isaiah eulogy not only provides a parallel experience to that of Jesus, 
it also significantly contributes to the Christian view of Jesus.  According 
to Isaiah, the Messianic Age failed to materialize because of the sins of the 
people.  As a result, Zerubbabel significance was not to be found ultimately 
in his life but in his death .  The Isaiah text explains that he died to 
compensate for the sins of his people, and while these sins stopped the 
coming of the Messianic Kingdom, it removed an important obstacle, making the 
way clear for the coming of the Kingdom at some future time.  The whole 
experience has left the author of 2 Isaiah with hope, although no longer an 
urgent hope.  His emphasis was rather upon the certainty of the realization 
of that hope, rather than its imminence, a shift in thought that is entirely 
understandable in light of his historical circumstances. 
Comments?

 
Lloyd Barré
http://freewebs.com/lmbarre
 



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1 In the twelfth year of Ahaz king of Judah, Hoshea son of Elah became king 
of Israel in Samaria, and he reigned nine years. 2 He did evil in the eyes of 
the LORD, but not like the kings of Israel who preceded him. 
 
[The regnal introductory and concluding formulae are Dtr1]
 
 3 Shalmaneser king of Assyria came up to attack Hoshea, who had been 
Shalmaneser's vassal and had paid him tribute. 4 But the king of Assyria 
discovered that Hoshea was a traitor, for he had sent envoys to So [a] king 
of Egypt, and he no longer paid tribute to the king of Assyria, as he had 
done year by year. Therefore Shalmaneser seized him and put him in prison. 5 
The king of Assyria invaded the entire land, marched against Samaria and laid 
siege to it for three years. 6 In the ninth year of Hoshea, the king of 
Assyria captured Samaria and deported the Israelites to Assyria. He settled 
them in Halah, in Gozan on the Habor River and in the towns of the Medes. 
Israel Exiled Because of Sin  7 All this took place because the Israelites 
had sinned against the LORD their God, who had brought them up out of Egypt 
from under the power of Pharaoh king of Egypt. They worshiped other gods 8 
and followed the practices of the nations the LORD had driven out before 
them, as well as the practices that the kings of Israel had introduced. 9 The 
Israelites secretly did things against the LORD their God that were not 
right. From watchtower to fortified city they built themselves high places in 
all their towns. 10 They set up sacred stones and Asherah poles on every high 
hill and under every spreading tree. 11 At every high place they burned 
incense, as the nations whom the LORD had driven out before them had done. 
They did wicked things that provoked the LORD to anger. 12 They worshiped 
idols, though the LORD had said, "You shall not do this." [b] 13 The LORD 
warned Israel and Judah through all his prophets and seers: "Turn
 from your evil ways. Observe my commands and decrees, in accordance with the 
entire Law that I commanded your fathers to obey and that I delivered to you 
through my servants the prophets." 
 14 But they would not listen and were as stiff-necked as their fathers, who 
did not trust in the LORD their God. 15 They rejected his decrees and the 
covenant he had made with their fathers and the warnings he had given them. 
They followed worthless idols and themselves became worthless. They imitated 
the nations around them although the LORD had ordered them, "Do not do as 
they do," and they did the things the LORD had forbidden them to do. 
 16 They forsook all the commands of the LORD their God and made for 
themselves two idols cast in the shape of calves, and an Asherah pole. They 
bowed down to all the starry hosts, and they worshiped Baal. 17 They 
sacrificed their sons and daughters in [c] the fire. They practiced 
divination and sorcery and sold themselves to do evil in the eyes of the 
LORD, provoking him to anger. 
 18 So the LORD was very angry with Israel and removed them from his 
presence. Only the tribe of Judah was left, 19 and even Judah did not keep 
the commands of the LORD their God. They followed the practices Israel had 
introduced. 20 Therefore the LORD rejected all the people of Israel; he 
afflicted them and gave them into the hands of plunderers, until he thrust 
them from his presence. 
 21 When he tore Israel away from the house of David, they made Jeroboam son 
of Nebat their king. Jeroboam enticed Israel away from following the LORD and 
caused them to commit a great sin. 22 The Israelites persisted in all the 
sins of Jeroboam and did not turn away from them 23 until the LORD removed 
them from his presence, as he had warned through all his servants the 
prophets. So the people of Israel were taken from their homeland into exile 
in Assyria, and they are still there.

Comments?
 
Lloyd Barré
http://freewebs.com/lmbarre
 



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J is Solomonic, ending with the Succession Narrative in 1 Kings 2:46:
 
46 Then the king gave the order to Benaiah son of Jehoiada, and he went out 
and struck Shimei down and killed him. 
      The kingdom was now firmly established in Solomon's hands..

E was written about 850 BCE and concludes with Elijah encounter with Yahweh 
in the cave where Moses saw the back of Yahweh:
 
 11 The LORD said, "Go out and stand on the mountain in the presence of the 
LORD, for the LORD is about to pass by." 
      Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered 
the rocks before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind. After the wind 
there was an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake. 12 After the 
earthquake came a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire 
came a gentle whisper. 13 When Elijah heard it, he pulled his cloak over his 
face and went out and stood at the mouth of the cave. 
      Then a voice said to him, "What are you doing here, Elijah?" 
 14 He replied, "I have been very zealous for the LORD God Almighty. The 
Israelites have rejected your covenant, broken down your altars, and put your 
prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are 
trying to kill me too." 
 15 The LORD said to him, "Go back the way you came, and go to the Desert of 
Damascus. When you get there, anoint Hazael king over Aram. 16 Also, anoint 
Jehu son of Nimshi king over Israel, and anoint Elisha son of Shaphat from 
Abel Meholah to succeed you as prophet. 17 Jehu will put to death any who 
escape the sword of Hazael, and Elisha will put to death any who escape the 
sword of Jehu. 18 Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel—all whose knees have 
not bowed down to Baal and all whose mouths have not kissed him."
 
The first edition of P was exilic upon the release of the Jews by King Cyrus. 
 It was edited during the post-exilic era (P2).  It concludes with the 
division of the tribes in the latter part of Joshua.
 
The Torah or Pentateuch was assembled by Ezra the Scribe during the 
post-exilic era.
 
Comments?
 
Lloyd Barré
http://freewebs.com/lmbarre
 



>From hholmyard3 AT earthlink.net  Sun Feb  1 21:03:36 2009
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Doug ,
> Hi Harold , another great day of beautiful rain, here in Yeppoon we
> have had a great run of summer rain , boy would Vic' want some of that
> , ok Harold,  Hosea wrote a story about a couple whom it seems
> represent God and Israel with Gomer as Israel , and the story seems
> about a woman who knows no sexual boundaries , and she has three
> children , these children seem to be eras of time for Israel , is that
> possible ?

HH: I don't think so. All the children seem to be describing the
contemporary situation of Israel in Hosea's time. All the children of
promiscuity represent the contemporary promiscuous behavior of Israel,
and each child's name represents some fact about how God would treat
Israel or think about them very soon.

Hos 1:2  When the LORD first spoke to Hosea, He said this to him: Go and
marry a promiscuous wife and have children of promiscuity, for the whole
land has been promiscuous by abandoning the LORD. 3 So he went and
married Gomer daughter of Diblaim, and she conceived and bore him a son.
4  Then the LORD said to him: Name him Jezreel, for in a little while I
will avenge the bloodshed of Jezreel on the house of Jehu and put an end
to the kingdom of the house of Israel. 5 On that day I will break the
bow of Israel in the valley of Jezreel. 6  She conceived again and gave
birth to a daughter, and the LORD said to him: Name her No Compassion,
for I will no longer have compassion on the house of Israel. I will
certainly take them away. 7 But I will have compassion on the house of
Judah, and I will deliver them by the LORD their God. I will not deliver
them by bow, sword, or war, or by horses and cavalry. 8  After Gomer had
weaned No Compassion, she conceived and gave birth to a son. 9 Then the
LORD said: Name him Not My People, for you are not My people, and I will
not be your God. 1
>
> Add to that ,
>
> Is 49:14 speaks of Zion , here we agree is Israel , who is left to
> feel forsaken , but then is returned "aa a bride" , again linked to a
> woman and marrige
>
> Is 50:1 speaks of a woman , who is to be put away for her because of
> her children transgressions
>
> Is 54:1-5 has the same situation , a woman put away who has children ,
> and who returns in a bride situation.
>
> Is 62:5 we have a similar situation where we begin with the subject
> Zion and Jerusalem , both I woud say have application , as you said,
> to "Washington" , they both represent the nation of Israel , and are
> returned as a bride , in this case it gets more interest by the groom
> being "her sons " .

HH: Here the word "marry" can also mean "possess, rule over." There is
wordplay. The sons will possess the land with the fervent attachment
that a young man has as he marries a young woman.
>
> Is 66:6-10 has a mother with child , almost identical to Rev 12:1-3 ,
> I mean how can we say that a woman who bares a male child and then
> more children are different women, not connected .

HH: Yes, hey are connectetd. By verse 8 the Isaiah passage is talking, I
think, about the the glorious kingdom (see the end of chapter 65) by
verse. Most interpreters take Isa 66:7 of the same event, but it is at
least conceivable that it talks about the birth of the Lord JesusMessiah
like Rev 12:1-3. The OT prophecies say that there will be a tribulation
for Israel like mother bearing a child before the blessed kingdom comes,
but Isa 66:7 seems to say that there is no tribulation, seeming to
contradict Daniel 12:1-3. Yet the man child in verse 7, in contrast to
the sons of verse 8, might conceivably be the Messiah, whose first
coming preceded tribulation. There is a male child born (v. 7), and then
a nation and land is born with many sons (v. 8). Is this all the same
birth? It is conceivable, since the land was born all at once, in one
day, which could suggest it being without tribulation. Butt the end of
verse 8 suggests that when Zion travailed, she gave birth. This seems
different than verse 7, where the birth comes before pain came to the
mother. But the mother in Isaiah 66 is Zion, and thus ultimately Israel,
and the mother of the Messiah in Rev 12:1-3 is Israel.

> Jer 3:1-14 we have two "sisters" , Judah and Israel both are compared
> to women in sexual sin, both are married to God , rejected and then
> restored .

HH: Right.


>
> Ezek 16 and 23  we have two women who represent Israel , both in sin ,
> both could be  the "Washington" principle .

HH: Really, in chapter 16, the central figure is Judah. There are
allegorically two sisters:

Ezek 16:46 Your older sister was Samaria, who lived with her daughters
to the north of you, and your younger sister was Sodom, who lived with
her daughters to the south of you.

HH: The two women in Ezekiel 23 are like the two women in Jere 3:1-14.
But you're right; the two Ezekiel texts both have the southern and
northern kingdoms as sisters
>
> Then we have the story of Hosea that seems to cover the complete story
> of Israel forsaken for her sin and then restored as a bride.

HH: Right
>
> Add to this is the oft used "metaphor" , allegory , simile style of
> writing of the "bride/city" being an application of people , as your
> "Washington" , when you look at that writing style and realise that
> the "bride" of Rev 21:10 is a city then maybe bells should ring to say
> that we need to learn a bit more about all the allegorical writings.

HH: You are astute to see that the image of Jerusalem as a bride should
not catch us by surprise.
>
>  It kind of makes sense that maybe all these "parable" style writings
> are presenting a similar "application" to the same sort of "mystery"
> style the bride,  written of as a city.

HH: The figurative language is used a bit differently in these different
texts. Sometimes the woman is Jerusalem. Sometimes the woman is Judah.
Sometimes the woman represents both kingdoms. But the woman always has
some reference to Israel, as you suggest.
>
> This is the message I am getting , I am thinking that all these
> parable/allegorical style pasages as I have mentioned above , do fit
> in with the bride city of Rev 21:10, I mean what is the purpose of
> writing these "scenarios" there must be a purpose, and it would be
> unlikely that all the Prophest were not lined up.  Then if you add
> "daughter of Zion" as another "allegorical" style of character then
> all the porphets , or at least the majority have written in this style.
>
>  I am wondering have you done a study on this style of writing, and it
> message .

HH: No, I really have not. I have thought a good deal about the idea of
God as the husband, and Israel or the church (or God's people) as the
bride. But the main point is that God compares his relationship with his
people to that of a husband, which is a position of authority, but also
of intense love and some degree of equality.

Yours,
Harold Holmyard