Biblical Hebrew Forum

[John Estell <oldearther AT yahoo.com>]

----- Forwarded Message ----
From: John Estell <oldearther AT yahoo.com>
To: K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>; "b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org" 
<b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:42:35 PM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] barak (bless? curse?) in the Book of Job


"...when people see (WLM they assume that eternity is meant, when only a time 
span of unknown length
but which has a definite end is meant in the text."

See Psalms 41:14, 90:2, 103:17, and 106:48.   Isn't God to be blessed forever?

John Estell


________________________________
From: K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>
To: "b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 12:18:53 PM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] barak (bless? curse?) in the Book of Job

John:

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 8:23 AM, John Estell <oldearther AT yahoo.com> wrote:

> Karl,
>
> *"But outside of slang where thereis a deliberate attempt at obfuscation,
> no where is that semantic range so
> broad that a word can have one meaning and its opposite."
> *
>
> **
>
> What about *olam* (and in Greek, *aion/aionios*) ?  Can't that refer to
> both time and eternity?  Aren't these opposite meanings?
>
> The question of (WLM was debated in greater detail before. It comes from
the same root as "to cause to be unknown" i.e. to hide, (LMWT alamut the
unknown, T(LMH unknown thing, and in reference to time, it is to a time of
unknown span. By extension, eternity also extends off into the unknown. So
the two are related, not opposite.

This has often led to misunderstanding of texts, as when people see (WLM
they assume that eternity is meant, when only a time span of unknown length
but which has a definite end is meant in the text.

The Greek word refers to an eon, a very long span of time, and by extension,
eternity. But that's Greek.

>
> John Estell
>

Karl W. Randolph.
_______________________________________________
b-hebrew mailing list
b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew



>From kwrandolph AT gmail.com  Fri Jan 30 12:01:56 2009
Return-Path: <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>
X-Original-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Received: by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix, from userid 3002)
        id BA6E74C017; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 12:01:56 -0500 (EST)
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on malecky
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE
        autolearn=disabled version=3.2.3
Received: from yw-out-1718.google.com (yw-out-1718.google.com [74.125.46.154])
        by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FE1B4C014
        for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 12:01:56 -0500 
(EST)
Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 9so187307ywk.60
        for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:01:56 -0800 
(PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.142.144.16 with SMTP id r16mr208364wfd.240.1233334915594; Fri,
        30 Jan 2009 09:01:55 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <4982682B.7030708 AT earthlink.net>
References: <17728.75259.qm AT web110013.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
        <4980BE3F.7060600 AT earthlink.net>
        <acd782170901281548v5268e64dyd1d5757031510b9e AT mail.gmail.com>
        <498107FF.2000407 AT earthlink.net>
        <acd782170901282049w433df403v521b2cfea1a7e238 AT mail.gmail.com>
        <4981D173.3070101 AT earthlink.net>
        <acd782170901291128rc64ec20ya27fde42227f2949 AT mail.gmail.com>
        <4982127D.8060402 AT earthlink.net>
        <acd782170901291611t42282be2r42a7ff9135f8e825 AT mail.gmail.com>
        <4982682B.7030708 AT earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:01:55 -0800
Message-ID: <acd782170901300901r5de2436fwe6274995c3f253ac AT mail.gmail.com>
From: K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>
To: "b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] barak (bless? curse?) in the Book of Job
X-BeenThere: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Biblical Hebrew Forum <b-hebrew.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew>
List-Post: <mailto:b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:01:56 -0000

Harold:
Right now we are dealing with what did the text originally say, I am letting
the what it means slide until later.

I found my dead tree version of Tanakh, which has a list of variants, to see
what the critical apparatus would say. Yes, the apparatus lists all the tiqune
sopherim and what they were changed from. The exact words are given. There
is no question what the original words were.

But when I come to the first two chapters of Job, there is only a speculated
correction, with a range of possible "originals". There are no variant
readings from other MSS.

So what textual evidence do you have that these verses were changed?

What is the evidence from the DSS concerning the tiqune sopherim? Were any
of them found among the DSS?

Karl W. Randolph.