Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] yorenu (again) in Sanhedrin 105

b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: Harold Holmyard <hholmyard3 AT earthlink.net>
  • To: "b-hebrew-lists.ibiblio.org" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] yorenu (again) in Sanhedrin 105
  • Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:00:13 -0500

Gabe,
Thanks much to Harold, Yigal, Yitzhak and Isaac for all the help. The "nun energicum" is what I was missing.

It had seemed to me that the Sanhedrin passage is playing off this nun in order to change "teach him" (in /Isaiah/) into "teach us" ("us" being the Israelites who answer "the prophet" in Rabbah b. bar Hana's parable). This was the Soncino reading; but the Schottenstein translation has "teach IT" (the yetzer hara' in the parable) -- and, appropriately as per Yitzhak's information, puts a dagesh in the nun of the Talmudic text as well. (I am assuming that the dagesh's are later additions to the Talmudic text as well as the Biblical, so that Soncino and Schottenstein can decide where to put their dagesh's in the Talmud. Correct? Or is there an "official" Masoretic Talmud?)

But what both translations agree on is to say "LET his God teach [him/us]" rather than simply, "His God will teach [him/us]". This fits in with a reading of the passage that takes the Israelites as being defiant or rebellious, and thus resisting the teaching, or at least taking no responsibility for controlling themselves. What interests me is an alternative reading, in which the Israelites would be saying, in a more positive manner, "His God WILL teach us." So what I want to know is, is there any grammatical basis for deciding this? If you set out to translate the two English sentences ("Let him teach us", "He will teach us") into (Biblical) Hebrew, what would you come up with to distinguish them?


Sanhedrin 105 seems to translate the verse the way modern translations do:

For he doth chastise him to discretion, and his God doth teach him.16 Rabbah b. Bar Hana said: The prophet urged Israel, 'Return and repent.' They replied, 'We cannot: the Tempter17 rules over us. He said to them, 'Curb your [evil] desires.' They replied, 'Let His God teach us.'18

Isa. XXVIII, 26. (E.V. For his God doth instruct him to discretion and doth teach him.)

HH: The "E.V." cited in the footnote corresponds to the KJV:

KJV: Is. 28:26 For his God doth instruct him to discretion, and doth teach him.

HH: But the text cited in the Talmud itself also corresponds to typical translations. Rabbah b. Bar Hana takes it differently, but is he serious or playing with words? For what do you do with the first half of the verse, where the object is clearly 3ms.

Yours,
Harold Holmyard


thanks again,
Gabe Eisenstein

_______________________________________________
b-hebrew mailing list
b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew






Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page