Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu>]

Pere,

1. Your mail still appears on my screen part in tiny letters and part  
in "regular size" letters. I will ask our network administrator for  
an explanation. Meanwhile I am switching from Helvetica to Verdana.
2. Even though -AH is in my opinion but a contracted HI) it may refer  
to various agents and objects in various relationship modes. We have  
YALDAH, 'girl, child-she', YALDAH, 'she gave birth, produced-a-chid- 
she' and YALDAH, 'her boy, boy-she'.
3. Corresponding to )I$ ZAR we have of course )I$A [not )I$AH] ZARAH,  
but DIRAH, 'apartment' is not the feminine of DIR, 'sty'. Someone  
announcing that he has a nice DIR on a quiet street will be the cause  
of immense merriment and derision, and will be long remembered in  
many a Purim party. Hebrew produces now different words [lexemes in  
polite circles] out of the same root by making "kind of" feminine  
counterparts, say, KBUDAH, 'luggage'.
4. In the adjective TOBAH, 'good', -AH refers to the feminine bearer  
of the attribute, but in the noun TOBAH, 'favor, goodness', -AH  
refers to the thing itself. Incidentally it is "female", as is  
autostradah.
5 The counterpart to MAR, 'mister' is MAR-AT, where -AT is surely the  
personal pronoun AT, 'you'. MARAH is 'bitter'. Such is also the  
relationship between GEBER and GBER-ET.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Dec 9, 2007, at 1:45 PM, <pporta AT oham.net> <pporta AT oham.net> wrote:

> Isaac,
>
> you mail is of a thick and dense content...
> Here and now I limit myself to ask you to explain in more deail  
> this assertion of yours:
>
> it is not the -AH that merely turns PAR, 'bull' into PARAH, 'cow,  
> PAR-she'.
>
>
> Simply, I do not understand what you mean by this (and I suppose  
> many of listers don't either).
> Your words seem to defy evidence:
>
> a. zar, strange, foreign (male) (Ex 30:33) <> zarah, strange,  
> foreign (female) (Ex 30:9)
> b. lavan, white (male) (Lev 13:4) <> l'vanah, white (female) (Lev  
> 13:4)
> c. (modern Israeli Hebrew)
> mar, mister, sir <> marah, lady
> and so on...
>
> Do you mean that suffix -AH is used to mark the female but it is  
> ALSO used for other purposes other than to mean the feminine?  Is  
> this what you really mean by your assertion?
>
> Pere Porta
> Barcelona (Spain)
[cut]
> From pporta AT oham.net  Mon Dec 10 01:01:14 2007
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Some points
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1. Your mail still appears on my screen part in tiny letters and part in =
"regular size" letters. I will ask our network administrator for an =
explanation. Meanwhile I am switching from Helvetica to Verdana.

Thank you. Maybe it will be a way to solution.

2. Even though -AH is in my opinion but a contracted HI) it may refer to =
various agents and objects in various relationship modes. We have =
YALDAH, 'girl, child-she', YALDAH, 'she gave birth, produced-a-chid-she' =
and YALDAH, 'her boy, boy-she'.

In www.oham.net/out/S-t/S-t.html you will see many patterns --from =
S-t0115 till S-t0211- having H for their last letter: in all of them =
this letter is suffix. Unfortunately I cannot show you the explanations =
because they have not yet been sent to the net.
If you were interested in any of them tell me and I'll make an effort to =
put it on the net as soon as possible.

The same for www.oham.net/out/S-d/S-d.html
> From S-d0101 till S-d0128 --- all end in H

3. Corresponding to )I$ ZAR we have of course )I$A [not )I$AH] ZARAH, =
but DIRAH, 'apartment' is not the feminine of DIR, 'sty'. Someone =
announcing that he has a nice DIR on a quiet street will be the cause of =
immense merriment and derision, and will be long remembered in many a =
Purim party. Hebrew produces now different words [lexemes in polite =
circles] out of the same root by making "kind of" feminine counterparts, =
say, KBUDAH, 'luggage'.=20

Yes.

4. In the adjective TOBAH, 'good', -AH refers to the feminine bearer of =
the attribute, but in the noun TOBAH, 'favor, goodness', -AH refers to =
the thing itself. Incidentally it is "female", as is autostradah.=20

Yes.

5 The counterpart to MAR, 'mister' is MAR-AT, where -AT is surely the =
personal pronoun AT, 'you'. MARAH is 'bitter'. Such is also the =
relationship between GEBER and GBER-ET.

My dictionary says the right form is MARAH. The form ending in -T is the =
construct of MARAH as in Marat Natan, Mme Natan.

Best regards from

Pere Porta
Barcelona (Catalonia, Spain)



 Isaac Fried, Boston University


 On Dec 9, 2007, at 1:45 PM, <pporta AT oham.net> <pporta AT oham.net> wrote:


   Isaac,

   you mail is of a thick and dense content...
   Here and now I limit myself to ask you to explain in more deail this =
assertion of yours:

   it is not the -AH that merely turns PAR, 'bull' into PARAH, 'cow, =
PAR-she'.


   Simply, I do not understand what you mean by this (and I suppose =
many of listers don't either).
   Your words seem to defy evidence:

   a. zar, strange, foreign (male) (Ex 30:33) <> zarah, strange, =
foreign (female) (Ex 30:9)
   b. lavan, white (male) (Lev 13:4) <> l'vanah, white (female) (Lev =
13:4)
   c. (modern Israeli Hebrew)
   mar, mister, sir <> marah, lady
   and so on...

   Do you mean that suffix -AH is used to mark the female but it is =
ALSO used for other purposes other than to mean the feminine?  Is this =
what you really mean by your assertion?

   Pere Porta
   Barcelona (Spain)
 [cut]
> From farmerjoeblo AT hotmail.com  Mon Dec 10 03:45:52 2007
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:45:22 +1100
From: David Kummerow <farmerjoeblo AT hotmail.com>
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Hi Isaac,

You wrote this:

> 2. Even though -AH is in my opinion but a contracted HI) it may refer
> to various agents and objects in various relationship modes. We have
> YALDAH, 'girl, child-she', YALDAH, 'she gave birth, produced-a-chid-
> she' and YALDAH, 'her boy, boy-she'.

and this:

> 4. In the adjective TOBAH, 'good', -AH refers to the feminine bearer
> of the attribute, but in the noun TOBAH, 'favor, goodness', -AH
> refers to the thing itself. Incidentally it is "female", as is
> autostradah.
> 5 The counterpart to MAR, 'mister' is MAR-AT, where -AT is surely the
> personal pronoun AT, 'you'. MARAH is 'bitter'. Such is also the
> relationship between GEBER and GBER-ET.

What is the evidence for these assertions?

What is your evidence for equating what has traditionally been analysed 
as gender marking to actually be speech-participant marking? I've 
already demonstrated that your methodology is without linguistic 
support, viz. 1) that you eschew any essential phonemic analysis which 
allows you to basically propose anything you want to as it is then up to 
the imagination and so is without any constraints; and 2) your 
contention -- again without adduced evidence -- that BH has only a 
single vowel is linguistically impossible. These two issues lead 
ultimately to a fanciful analysis which no one is taking seriously.

You would do well to read monographs which relate to your above 
assertions such as the following:

Corbett, Greville G. 1991. Gender. Cambridge Textbooks in Linguistics. 
Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.

Corbett, Greville G. 2000. Number. Cambridge Textbooks in Linguistics. 
Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.

Siewierska, Anna. 2004. Person. Cambridge Textbooks in Linguistics. 
Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.

Regards,
David Kummerow.