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b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] Isaiah 13:15 - every one that is joined (unto them) shall fall by the sword

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  • From: "K Randolph" <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>
  • To: b-hebrew-lists.ibiblio.org <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Isaiah 13:15 - every one that is joined (unto them) shall fall by the sword
  • Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 18:36:37 -0700

Dear Steven:

Looking at the meaning, we find "to deliver up, hand over (to add (to),
dissimilar objects)" where the adding to is a subordinate meaning to the
handing over and where the objects being added are dissimilar. The verb is
used only 17 times in Tanakh.

As for the concept of capturing, that is the active meaning to the Hebrew
passive of being handed over, at least that is my guess.

Karl W. Randolph.

On 5/26/07, schmuel <schmuel AT nyc.rr.com> wrote:

Hi Folks,

Greetings.
Question on the following verse.

Isaiah 13:15 (KJB)
Every one that is found shall be thrust through;
and every one that is joined (unto them) shall fall by the sword.

Modern translations often have "captured" instead of "joined" in this
verse for
HPS - saphah -(Stongs 5595)

=========================

Yet this is not supported by Rashi, whose interpretation is much closer to
the traditional KJB reading.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=15944&showrashi=true
Judaica Press
"Everyone who is found shall be stabbed, and anyone who takes refuge shall
fall by the sword."

Rashi
"Everyone who is found outside, shall be stabbed. and anyone who takes
refuge with the people of the city to be included with them in the siege,
shall fall by the sword when the city capitulates...."

===========================================

And John Gill gives Hebraic support and indicates the Greek OT agrees with
the traditional translation.

http://eword.gospelcom.net/comments/isaiah/gill/isaiah13.htm
and everyone that is joined [unto them] shall fall by the sword;

"added" unto them; any of other nations that joined them as auxiliaries
... or "that is gathered"; so the Septuagint, "they that are gathered"; that
are gathered together in a body to resist the enemy, and defend themselves.

=======================================

Nor does Gesenius give "capture" as a meaning. (He goes in his own
direction.)

http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H05595&Version=kjv

========================================
Early LATIN, GREEK, ARAMAIC translations

Lamsa from the Aramaic (2nd century) also goes in his own direction ..
"and everyone that escapes shall fall by the sword"

Latin Vulgate (400 AD)
omnis qui inventus fuerit occidetur et omnis qui supervenerit cadet in
gladio

In the Douay-Rheims this is not remotely "captured"
Every one that shall be found, shall be slain:
and every one that shall come to their aid,
shall fall by the sword.

Gill has the Targum as
"everyone that enters into the fortified cities," flees there for safety
and protection.

And the Greek OT (Brenton)
"For whosoever shall be taken shall be overcome;
and they that are gathered together shall fall by the sword.

So none of the major early-translation languages
appear to give "captured" any support whatsoever, nor Rashi.

Does it have any early support in any manner ?
Or is it just a recent translation 'discovery' ?

========================================

And saphah is used as "add" or "augment" in a number of other verses,
and is given as a dictionary definition (Biblical an modern)
- which in this context is analogous to "join".

So can you please help explain the modern movement to "capture" in this
verse.
Perhaps explain some of the grammatical issues as well, and your
contextual thoughts.

Thanks.

Shalom,
Steven Avery
Queens, NY

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic





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