Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Bruce Meltzer <bmeltzer1243 AT yahoo.com>]

Hi guys.  I had a question on the term "zera sheqer" used in Isaiah 57:4 
which I've seen translated commonly as "seed of falsehood" (KJV and others) 
and alternative as "offspring of liars" (NIV) which I have been told is the 
correct understanding.  
   
  This has confused me because zera from what I understand always refers to 
something physical and when used in reference to a person such as Israel in 
this case, it is the offspring of physical people.  Looking at the Hebrew 
lexicon, it tells me that sheqer usually means falsehood, false, lie, lies, 
and one case in Proverbs, liar.  The word for liars however is shakran and is 
not used here.  
   
  So my question is, how do you derive "liars" from sheqer and how do you 
know this is the correct meaning instead of "offspring of falsehood" or 
"offspring of lies" which is what the word "sheqer" seems to suggest.  Was 
Isaiah referring to Israel as people descended from liars or as a 
metaphorical seed of falsehood?  
   
  I apologize if this seems like a trivial question since my knowledge of 
Hebrew is very sparse at best.
  
Thanks!
   
  - Bruce

       
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
 Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
>From if AT math.bu.edu  Mon Apr 30 07:56:00 2007
Return-Path: <if AT math.bu.edu>
X-Original-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Received: from smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net
        [207.172.157.102])
        by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F368D4C013
        for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 07:55:59 -0400 
(EDT)
Received: from mr08.lnh.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.157.28])
        by smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 30 Apr 2007 07:56:00 -0400
Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net 
[207.172.4.11])
        by mr08.lnh.mail.rcn.net (MOS 3.8.3-GA) with ESMTP id IPH00611;
        Mon, 30 Apr 2007 07:55:59 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from 209-6-174-145.c3-0.bkl-ubr2.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO
        [192.168.1.100]) ([209.6.174.145])
        by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 30 Apr 2007 07:55:55 -0400
In-Reply-To: <001e01c7894c$c7495460$4de26650@pc01>
References: <4625596A.9020301 AT neo.rr.com>
        <46265B36.3070809 AT qaya.org><4627F6CB.6040409 AT neo.rr.com>
        <46287ED9.60809 AT qaya.org> <462ACEA9.5000105 AT neo.rr.com>
        <001e01c7894c$c7495460$4de26650@pc01>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2)
X-Priority: 3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <DF92EA28-8E81-4072-BA9B-5DEB300C6852 AT math.bu.edu>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu>
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 07:55:57 -0400
To: "<pporta AT oham.net>" <pporta AT oham.net>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2)
X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=mr08.lnh.mail.rcn.net
X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown,
        refid=str=0001.0A090204.4635D94F.0019,ss=1,fgs=0,
        ip=207.172.4.11, so=2006-12-09 10:45:40,
        dmn=5.1.5/2006-01-31
Cc: b-hebrew List <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Psalm 149:7 - Leningrad Codex Varient: Bal-Umim
X-BeenThere: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Biblical Hebrew Forum <b-hebrew.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew>
List-Post: <mailto:b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:56:00 -0000

Pere,

It appears to me that HA$A) of Isaiah 6:10 is 'avert' or 'turn in the  
wrong direction'. No (total) blindness there. I wander why the  
prophet is not using in this instance the root KHH, 'dim', as used  
for the eye in both Genesis 27:1 and Deuteronomy 34:7.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Apr 28, 2007, at 12:22 AM, <pporta AT oham.net> <pporta AT oham.net> wrote:

>> I was wondering of the word )UM.IYM was related to the word "mother".
>>
>> Now you state that L:)OM and I would assume you would also include  
>> the
>> words in question )UM.IYM  and  L:)UM.IYM is most likely not  
>> related to
>> )UM.IYM and )UM.FH
>> I was wondering why you think that. To my limited knowledge it would
>> appear that )UM.IYM was the basis for L:)UM.IYM and that in fact
>> L:)UM.IYM should be morphed as L:/)UM.IYM to mean "to people" or "for
>> people"? Or would it be some grammar thing in which the L: is doing
>> something to the word instead of adding "to"?
>
> ______________
>
> Dear BH listers, and mainly John Steven,
>
> Related to the issue you're dealing with some days ago, I found an
> interesting case similar to yours.
>
> These are two identical words that come from different bases and,  
> unlike
> your case, mean opposite or, better, nearly opposite things:
>
> 1. In Psalm 39:14 -------- HF$A( ------- look away!  ------- base:  
> $F(FH,
> gaze (Gen 4:5)
> 2. In Isa 6:10 ------------- HF$A(  ------- blind! --------------  
> base:
> $F(A(, be blind (not in the Bible)
>
> Perhaps this can help casting some light on your question.
>
> Pere Porta
>
> _______________________________________________
> b-hebrew mailing list
> b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
>