Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Philip <philipengmann AT yahoo.com>]

Dear Peter, (2 years later),  Are the other translations that you cite below 
complete manuscripts? or only fragments?
   
  Yours,
   
  Philip Engmann
     [b-hebrew] Primary and Secondary Old Testament Witnesses  Peter Kirk 
peterkirk at qaya.org 
Thu Aug 26 14:07:38 EDT 2004 
      
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On 26/08/2004 00:52, Harold R. Holmyard III wrote:    > Dear Philip,  >  >> 
Are the following statements true?  >>  >>  >> 1. The primary Old Testament 
witnesses are the Masoretic Text and the  >> Septuagint.  >>  >> 2. The 
secondary Old Testament witnesses include:  >>  >>    i.   The Dead Sea 
Scrolls,  >>    ii.  The Samaritan Pentateuch,  >>    iii. The Wadi Murabbaat 
Manuscripts,  >>    iv.  The Masada Manuscripts,  >>    v.   The Geniza 
Fragments.  >>  >> If the above statements are true, what is the 
justification for   >> selecting  >> some witnesses as primary witnesses and 
other witnesses as secondary  >> witnesses?  >  >  > HH: I would call them 
all primary witnesses with the possible   > exception of the Septuagint, 
which is a translation into another   > language. All the other materials are 
ancient or very old records of   > the Scriptures in the original languages. 
But in another sense even   > translations are primary witnesses, since they 
are ancient copies
 of   > the Scriptures. I would consider as secondary witnesses the quotation 
  > of Scripture in other writings.  >  If we are looking at translations, 
why is only the LXX mentioned? It is   not the only ancient translation, 
although it may be the oldest. There   are for example a variety of Aramaic 
(= Targums) and Syriac versions, as   well as variant Greek texts, which 
deserve mention alongside the LXX.   The Latin Vulgate is also an important 
witness because it is known to   have been translated from the Hebrew long 
before the existing MT MSS.   There are also Arabic, Ethiopic, Armenian, 
Coptic etc translations to be   considered.      --   Peter Kirk  peter at 
qaya.org (personal)  peterkirk at qaya.org (work)  http://www.qaya.org/       
 
  
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>From kgraham0938 AT comcast.net  Thu Apr 26 07:59:40 2007
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] lev. 19:16
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The Hebrew says something like ' do not stand by/upon the blood of your 
neighbor.'  Looking at the surrounding context it must mean something to the 
effect of harming your neighbor verbally or bearing false witness in court.  
Or maybe it is saying that you should not just stand there when your neighbor 
is in trouble and you have the ability to do something about it.

The LXX seems to carry the idea of 'conspiring upon the blood of your 
neighbor.'

--
Kelton Graham 
KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: gary blansky <gblansky AT yahoo.com> 

> In lev. 19:16 it says "neither shalt thou stand idly by the blood of thy 
> neighbour". this mean to rescue someones life . I read that rebbes said 
> that you 
> dont have to risk your own life to save anothers, but isn't that 
> substituting 
> from g-o-d-s commanments? he says to save someones life but here they say 
> you 
> don't have to. even saying you don't have to in a certain circumstance it's 
> still substituting from this commandment. 
> 
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>From peterkirk AT qaya.org  Thu Apr 26 08:23:35 2007
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Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:23:28 +0100
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Are Ancient OT Translations Cited Complete?
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On 26/04/2007 12:48, Philip wrote:
> Dear Peter, (2 years later),  Are the other translations that you cite 
> below complete manuscripts? or only fragments?
>    
> ... If we are looking at translations, why is only the LXX mentioned? It is 
>   not the only ancient translation, although it may be the oldest. There   
> are for example a variety of Aramaic (= Targums) and Syriac versions, as   
> well as variant Greek texts, which deserve mention alongside the LXX.   The 
> Latin Vulgate is also an important witness because it is known to   have 
> been translated from the Hebrew long before the existing MT MSS.   There 
> are also Arabic, Ethiopic, Armenian, Coptic etc translations to be   
> considered.      --   Peter Kirk
>
>   
Philip, I don't know if all of these ancient translations are complete 
for the whole Hebrew Bible. I'm not sure that there is a complete 
ancient Arabic translation, and I don't think there are complete Greek 
texts apart from what we know as LXX. But I understand Latin (Vulgate), 
Aramaic, Syriac, Ethiopic, Coptic and Armenian to be complete or 
essentially so, preserved by religious communities which continue to use 
them. None of these are "only fragments". Maybe others know the details 
better than me.

-- 
Peter Kirk
E-mail:  peter AT qaya.org
Blog:    http://www.qaya.org/blog/
Website: http://www.qaya.org/