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  • From: Philip <philipengmann AT yahoo.com>
  • To: b-hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: [b-hebrew] Definition (Parsing) of "MITAH" in Genesis 47:31
  • Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 23:51:56 -0700 (PDT)

Dear All,

1. "WAYISHTAHU" in Genesis 47:31 is a reflexive verb.

2. It seems to me therefore that "YISRAEL", as well as being the subject
of the sentence, is also the OBJECT of the sentence.

3. What then is "MITAH"?

Best regards,

Philip Engmann


---------------------------------
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>From cierpke AT prodigy.net Wed Apr 18 07:28:35 2007
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Definition (Parsing) of "MITAH" in Genesis 47:31
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Philip:

It is the noun which is in aposition to the object (ROSH) of the preposition
`AL and stands in the prepositional phrase which modifies "WAYISHTAHU"

Kevin

Prof. Kevin W. Woodruff, M.Div., M.S.I.S.
Library Director/Reference Librarian, Assistant Professor of Bible, Greek,
Theological Bibliography and Research
Tennessee Temple University/Temple Baptist Seminary, 1815 Union Ave.
Chattanooga, Tennessee 37404, United States of America
423/493-4252 (office) 423/698-9447 (home) 423/493-4497 (FAX)
Cierpke AT prodigy.net http://pages.prodigy.net/cierpke/woodruff.htm



----- Original Message ----
From: Philip <philipengmann AT yahoo.com>
To: b-hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 2:51:56 AM
Subject: [b-hebrew] Definition (Parsing) of "MITAH" in Genesis 47:31


Dear All,

1. "WAYISHTAHU" in Genesis 47:31 is a reflexive verb.

2. It seems to me therefore that "YISRAEL", as well as being the subject
of the sentence, is also the OBJECT of the sentence.

3. What then is "MITAH"?

Best regards,

Philip Engmann


---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
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>From uhurwitz AT yahoo.com Wed Apr 18 09:53:50 2007
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From: Uri Hurwitz <uhurwitz AT yahoo.com>
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Isaac Fried wrote, inter alia:
"Uri, The relationship between Hebrew and Arabic is enigmatic

and I am not prepared to be sucked now into this murky

vortex. "...

Arabic preserves many Proto-Semitic features which are

common to all Semitic languages. Just one small example:

Heb. ATTAH compared with Arab. ANTA. Notice the Dagesh

forte in the Heb. Tav which compensates for the original Nun

that had been there and is preserved in the Arabic. In Hebrew

it was assimilated to the next letter, but marked its former

presence by the slight emphatic pronounciation as still

heard in Masoretes time and marked by them as a dagesh.

To cite just one more example :the exact same process

occurred in verbs. Notice the imperfect of NPL in Qal, where

the Nun drops and is commpensated with a dagesh.



As for the pre-historical devlopment of Semitic languages

or human languages in general, this is the realm of sheer

speculation.

Uri








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>From peter AT qaya.org Wed Apr 18 13:53:06 2007
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Psalm 149:7 - Leningrad Codex Varient: Bal-Umim
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On 18/04/2007 00:34, Brak wrote:
> I have encountered ssomething interesting that I would like to share and
> hopefully figure out.
>
> In just about every Hebrew Bible I have has at the end of Psalm 149:7
> BAL:)UM.IYM
> but in the LC it has BAL-UM.IMYM
>
>
You appear to mean B.AL-)UM.IYM . It is important that the aleph has not
been dropped, and as the maqqeph (hyphen) is counted as a vowel point
there is no difference in the consonantal text.

> ...
>
> Now here are some things I found:
>
> L:UM.IMYM appears in the following places: ...
>

You mean L:)UM.IYM - it is important to be precise when we are looking
at details of pointing.

> ...
>
> Now this is interesting:
> HF)UM.IYM
> Psalms 117:1 - translated as "peoples"
>
>
According to BDB there is a word )UM.FH "tribe, people", with Arabic and
Akkadian cognates, found at Numbers 25:15, Psalm 117:1, Gen 25:16. This
is from the same root as )"M "mother", and the Arabic "umma" is well
known as a word for the Muslim community as a whole. There is also a
Hebrew word (AM or (FM "people", with separate Arabic, Syriac and
Akkadian cognates, with a root meaning more like "include". It seems to
me that these are separate words with separate histories, not confused
in ancient times when aleph and ayin were distinct consonants, although
confusing now to people who don't pronounce ayin distinctively.

There is also a word L:)OM "people", which is probably unrelated to
either of the above.

> So from Psalms 117:1 it would appear that the root )M is "people" - just
> like the word (M
> So could this be a case of alternate spellings? Kind of like how Isaac
> is spelled with sometimes a TSADI, other times a SIN?
>
> So would L:UM.IMYM be translated as "to peoples", UM.IMYM as "peoples"
> and hense BAL-UM.IMYM as "nothing peoples".
>
> Any kind of input or ideas or guidance would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
I guess that B.AL-)UM.IYM "not peoples", which refers to Gentiles, may
well be a pejorative repointing of B.AL:)UM.IYM "in/among the peoples".
Probably the latter is more original, as LXX (EN TOIS LAOIS "in the
peoples", 43:15 and 149:7) tends to confirm.


--
Peter Kirk
E-mail: peter AT qaya.org
Blog: http://www.qaya.org/blog/
Website: http://www.qaya.org/





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