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  • From: Shoshanna Walker <rosewalk AT concentric.net>
  • To: "Yohanan bin-Dawidh" <yohanan.bin.dawidh AT gmail.com>
  • Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Ha'satan - (Sub-category of "New or Renewed in Jeremiah 31:31?")
  • Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:07:01 -0400

Dear Yochanan, my email program is not configured to read Hebrew, so most of this email is lost on me, in the future, just send me the references to the quotes, or transliterate for me, please.

So I don't know if we agree or dsagree that HaSatan is an angel who has a job to do, as each angel does, when their job(s) are done, they cease to exist, and HaSatan's job is to tempt man away from obedience to G-d, in order that man has an opportunity to choose G-d, and thereby elevate his soul.

Anyway, when Mashiach comes, there will be no more need for this "testing" (and HaSatan will cease to exist because his job will be finished, that is what happens to angels), that is what the "new" covenant refers to.

Shoshanna


Dear Shoshanna,

In Sefer Bamidbar (Numbers) chapter 22 verse 22 we read ×ï÷…×ô÷º÷¥×ó÷…×®-×ê÷…×£
×ê÷±×ú÷¼×î÷¥×ô×ù, ×õ÷º÷¥×ô-×î×ï÷¼×ú÷µ×ö÷ƒ ×î×ï÷º×ê, ×ï÷…×ô÷º÷¥×÷ƒ×ô÷…׶÷º÷µ×ë ×û÷…×ú÷ƒ×ê÷…×ö÷ƒ ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î ×ë÷º÷…×ì÷º÷×®÷×ö÷ƒ,
×ú÷ƒ×©×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü ×ú×ï÷¼; ×ï÷ƒ×î×ï÷º×ê ×®÷¼×õ÷µ×ë ×¢÷…×ú-×ê÷¾×÷¼×Ý×ï÷¼, ×ï÷º×©×Å÷ƒ×Ý÷µ×ô ×Ý÷ƒ×¢÷½×®÷½×ô×ï ×¢÷¥×û÷º×ï÷¼ which
suggests that in this situation it was ×û÷…×ú÷ƒ×ê÷…×ö÷ƒ ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î acting as ש×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü,
right? Then in Sefer Shemu'el Alef (1 Samuel) 16:14 we read
×ï÷º×ë÷¥×¢÷¾×÷…ׁ÷º×ï÷º ×®×ï÷º×ó÷…-×®÷½×¢÷½×î,
×û÷µ×ê÷µ× ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î that clearly denotes that an "evil spirit from YHWH" terrified
Sha'ul, and not merely "an evil spirit". Also in Sefer Divrei Hayammim Alef
(1 Chronicles) 21:1 we read ×ï÷…×ô÷º÷…×¢÷¾×û÷¼×ì ש×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü, ×¢÷…×ú-×ô÷¥×©×Ç÷ƒ×®÷½×ê÷µ×ú; ×ï÷…×ô÷º÷½×°÷×,
×ê÷×-×ì÷º÷½×ï÷¥×ô×ì, ×ú÷¥×û÷ƒ×Ý×ï÷¼×, ×ê÷×-×ô÷¥×©×Ç÷ƒ×®÷½×ê÷µ×ú but in the same account in Sefer
Shemu'el Bet (2 Samuel) 24:1 we read ×ï÷…×ô÷º÷¼×°÷×£, ×ê÷…×£-×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î, ×ú÷…×ó÷¾×®×ï÷¼×,
×ë÷º÷ƒ×ô÷¥×©×Ç÷ƒ×®÷½×ê÷µ×ú; ×ï÷…×ô÷º÷½×°÷× ×ê÷×-×ì÷º÷½×ï÷¥×ì ×ë÷º÷½×î÷×ù ×ú÷µ×ê×û÷¼×®, ×ú÷µ×ö÷ƒ ×û÷ƒ×Ý÷µ×î ×ê÷×-×ô÷¥×©×Ç÷ƒ×®÷½×ê÷µ×ú
×ï÷ƒ×ê÷×-×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷º×ì÷½×î , suggesting that the ש×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü of the account in Divrei
Hayammim is ×ê÷…×£-×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î, much like it was in Sefer Bamidbar chapter 22.

All the above seem to point to ש×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü being a servant of ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î working on
His side against "evil men". So what else does the Miq'ra state about the
concept, or personality of ש×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü?

We read in Sefer Zekaryah chapter 3 ×ï÷…×ô÷º÷…×®÷ƒ×ê÷µ×Ý÷¥×ô, ×ê÷×-×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷¼×©×Å÷ª×¢÷… ×î÷…×õ÷º÷¼×î÷µ×ü
×î÷…×í÷º÷½×ì×ï÷¼×ú, ×¢÷¼×û÷µ×ì, ×ú÷¥×§÷ƒ×Ý÷µ×ô ×û÷…×ú÷ƒ×ê÷…×ö÷ƒ ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î; ×ï÷ƒ×î÷…ש÷º×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü ×¢÷¼×û÷µ×ì ×¢÷…×ú-×ô÷ƒ×û÷¥×ô×Ý×ï÷¼,
×ú÷ƒ×©×Ç÷¥×ò÷ƒ×Ý×ï÷¼ and then ×ï÷…×ô÷º÷¼×ê×û÷×® ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î ×ê÷×ú-×î÷…ש÷º×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü, ×ô÷¥×í÷ƒ×¢÷…×® ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î ×ë÷º÷ƒ×ö÷½
×î÷…ש÷º×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü, ×ï÷ƒ×ô÷¥×í÷ƒ×¢÷…×® ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î ×ë÷º÷ƒ×ö÷½, ×î÷…×ë÷º÷¼×ó÷µ×® ×ë÷º÷¥×ô×®×ï÷º×©×Å÷½×ú÷½÷¥×ù; ×î÷¾×ú×ï÷¼×ê ×ñ÷×î ×ê×ï÷º×ì,
×û÷ª×¶÷º÷½×ú ×û÷µ×ê÷µ×©×Å which to some would appear as if ש÷º×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü is the enemy of ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î,
or at least opposes Him, but in truth the answer lies in the phrase
×ï÷¥×ô×î×ï÷¼×©×Å÷ª×¢÷…,
×î÷½×ô÷½×î ×ú÷½×ë÷ª×©×Å ×ë÷º÷ƒ×í÷½×ì÷¥×ô×ù ׶×ï÷¼×ê÷¥×ô×ù; ×ï÷ƒ×¢÷¼×û÷µ×ì, ×ú÷¥×§÷ƒ×Ý÷µ×ô ×î÷…×û÷º÷…×ú÷ƒ×ê÷½×ö÷ƒ, which when
linked with the idea of ×ï÷…×Ý÷º÷ƒ×î÷¥×ô ×õ÷…×ò÷º÷½×û÷µ×ê ×õ÷º÷ª×ú÷º÷½×Ý×ï÷º, ×ï÷º×õ÷ƒ×ë÷×í÷×ì ×¢÷¥×ì÷º÷¥×ô×ù
×õ÷º÷½×ú-׶÷¥×ì÷ƒ×ß÷¼×÷µ×ô×Ý×ï÷º; ×ï÷…×Ý÷º÷½×ë÷×ú ×õ÷º÷×¢÷½×ú÷×î ×õ÷º÷ª×ú÷º÷½×Ý×ï÷º, ×ï÷…×¢÷¾×ï’Äç÷¼×Ý÷µ×Ý×ï÷º ×õ÷º÷½×®×ï÷º×ó÷…
×ô÷¥×©÷º×Ç÷½×ê÷ª×Ý×ï÷º found in Sefer Yishayahu (Isaiah) chapter 64 verse 5 seem to
show us that either Israel or Yohoshu'a had sinned.

And what about in Sefer Iyyov (Job) where it appears that ש÷º×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü is
tempting Iyyov? Through out this text we see everything attributed to
×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×îby Iyyov, and never to the idea of a
ש÷º×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü, and we see that when the ש÷º×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü is talking to ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î that it is
made clear that the ש÷º×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü can do nothing without the permission of ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î,
right?

I think it is self-evident in the Miq'ra that the idea of ש÷º×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü is one of
a messenger of ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î, or ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î, Himself, acting as an advesary to wicked
humans, or a test unto humans to see if they will remain loyal to ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î,
never as an evil-being in opposition to ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î and out to bring down the
fall of humankind, which in my humble opinion is a pagan idea.

Yohanan bin-Dawidh×ô÷ƒ
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  • Re: [b-hebrew] Ha'satan - (Sub-category of "New or Renewed in Jeremiah 31:31?"), Shoshanna Walker, 04/14/2007

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