Biblical Hebrew Forum

["B. M. Rocine" <brocine AT twcny.rr.com>]

Hi Rolf and others,

I would like to make a couple comments about the yiqtols Rolf cites 
below.  In short, while they may refer to the past relative to the 
speaker's time, I do not think they refer to the past relative to the 
reference time.

Rolf Furuli wrote:
> Dear David,
>
> You have not really answered my basic question, "How do we distinguish 
> between past reference and past tense?"  Your comments show that your 
> approach is completely theory-dependent. You start with several linguistic 
> theories, the prototype theory, the theory of grammaticalisation etc., and 
> explain the Hebrew text in light of these. It seems to me that this is a 
> "pick and choose" game; the theory assumes this and that and therefore we 
> understand a particular text in a particular way, and there are no controls. 
> My point is: WAYYIQTOLs, WEYIQTOLs, YIQTOLs, QATALs, WEQATALs, participles, 
> and infinitives do have past reference. I am perfectly aware that 
> participles and infinitives and finite forms with and without prefixed 
> WAY(Y)- AND WE- tend to have different syntactic functions, some are 
> senetence initial and others are not, and some are often used together with 
> particular words. Just to describe syntax and function of the examples begs 
> my question. So again, by which criteria can you point to a WAYYIQTOL with 
> past reference and say that it is preterit and to a YIQTOL with past 
> reference and say it is not a preterit.
>
> A few more examples:
>
> 1a) and they returned (WAYYIQTOL) to Jerusalem. 2 Samuel 17:10
>
>   
BTW, do you means 17:20?
> 1b) and the people returned (YIQTOL) after him. 2 Samuel 23:10
>
>   
The narrator is in the middle of a story that continues in vv. 11 and 
following.  At the point of the story when the narrator uses yiqtol, the 
people had not returned.  He is only saying they *would* return at the 
end of the narrative when *three* "mighties" (see 1 Chronicles 
11:10-14), not only one man joined to defend a field against all odds.

In other words, against a lot of English translations I would render 2 
Sam 23:10-11 like so:
It was he who arose and struck down the Philistines until his hand was 
weary and stuck to his sword.  The Lord worked a great deliverance that 
day, and the people would only return after him for the spoils.
It was Shammah who followed him [into battle]. The Philistines were 
gathered...and (so on)
> 2a) and he made (YIQTOL) a house for the daughter of Pharaoh.  1 Kings 7:8
>
>   
Solomon was in the middle of a long building project.  At reference 
time, Solomon's own house was completed (see 7:1), but he had not yet 
built the house for Pharaoh's daughter, which he was planning.

Shalom,
Bryan


> 2a) and he built (WAYYIQTOL)  a house on the high places.  1 Kings 12:31
>
> 3a) and Jehudi read it (WAYYIQTOL) to the king.. Jeremiah 36:21
>
> 3b) with his mouth he read (WAYYIQTOL) all these words to me. Jeremiah 36:18
>
>   

--
B.M. Rocine
Living Word Church
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