Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Uri Hurwitz <uhurwitz AT yahoo.com>]

 Dear Rhienhard,
   
   While it is of course true that the MT as we have it consists of various 
  linguistic layers, one can still be a bit more optimistic about the actual 
  spoken language which provided the basis for the written texts:
   
     The existence of  texts from pre-exilic period which, -- more than 
  monumental inscriptions, -- reflect the daily speoken language at the time.
    The corpus may be modest, but we have no such examples from 
  neighboring speakers of NW dialects,  Moabites, Ammonites or Edomites, 
  or even Phoenicians.
   
    Secondly, the is a large number of examples of direct speech in the HB, 
  a complicated subject, but one which has direct bearing on this discussion.
   
    Finally, there is the intrinsic evdience of diachronic development in the
   BH itself. One would  have difficulty explaining it, were there no 
developments 
  in the spoken language.
   
    And, let's not forget that before the MT we have the evidence of the DSS;
  also that the Mishnah, completed  by C. 200 CE, at least six centuries 
  befoe the MT, already uses exactly such text in all its biblical quotes.
   
    All this has nothing to do do whether or not BH  should be used as 
   pedagogical tool with students.
   
    Regards,
   
    Uri
   
   
   
       Reinhard G. Lehmann  wrote, inter alia:
    "........And as far as BIBLICAL Hebrew is concerned it 
  is important to keep in mind that it is an artificial language, 
  mixing up several synchronic and diachronic different layers 
  (registers, dialects and so on). .....  Because there is no one to speak to 
who has a native speaker's  competence in Biblical Hebrew, there is neither a 
sound reason to 
  translate a paragraph of any language into Biblical Hebrew nor a 
  chance to learn anything from that lest that we are ignorant.

  Reinhard G. Lehmann
  Academical Director
  Forschungsstelle für althebräische Sprache
  Johannes Gutenberg-University of Mainz


 
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>From leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il  Sat Dec  2 19:29:22 2006
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Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 02:28:27 +0200
From: Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Gen 4:8
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What Bruce should have written was "some translations". The Hebrew is indeed 
laconic, and both the Septuagint and the various classical commentators, as 
well as modern translations, have felt a need to fill in the gap: what did 
Cain say? Rashi, for instance, writes that he got into an argument, with the 
purpose of provoking a fight. Radak (David Qimhi) says that he repeated all 
of the things that God had said to him. Some midrashim claim that they were 
arguing over whose half of the world would the Temple be built on. Ramban 
seems to think that the "and it was when they were in the field" DOES refer 
to "And Cain said to Abel". Such a laconic verse can certainly make room for 
different interpretations.

Yigal Levin


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shoshanna Walker" <rosewalk AT concentric.net>
To: "b-Hebrew" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Gen 4:8


> No, the English translations that say "Let's go out into the field"
> are not variant but WRONG - and show a LACK of understanding Hebrew.
>
> Shoshanna
>
>
>
>
> The Hebrew text reads as you say.  The English translations that
> include "Let's go out into
> the field" get it from the Septuagint and the other versions.  It's
> not an ad lib, just a variant
> reading.
>
> On 3 Dec 2006 at 7:31, Bruce Prince wrote:
>
>> Can someone help me with a literal translation of the first part of this
>> verse. Generally, it reads, "Cain told (said to) Abel his brother." and
>> that's it! On the surface, it doesn't appear to make sense, but some
>> versions ad lib to suggest that Cain was suggesting to Abel that they go 
>> for
>> a walk in the fields.
>
>
> Dave Washburn
> "I will get the...Amish terrarium."
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