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  • From: Harold Holmyard <hholmyard AT ont.com>
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Fw: "Desire of Women" in Heb. Text of Dan. 11:37
  • Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 08:03:59 -0600

Arthur Gershman wrote:
Dear Friends,
We are at an impasse as to how to define "bible." Is it Torah, Tanakh, or
does it include the so-called New Testament. Let's decide.
Art, this issue seems immaterial for the purposes of our discussion. I know that Jewish people do not include the New Testament in their Bible, and I would never try to force it into their Bible, even for the purposes of discussion. But all of us accept Haggai into the Bible, for we all accept the Jewish Bible as the Bible. Some of us include the New Testament in their Bible.

My quotation of the Book of Hebrews was not to claim biblical authority for the interpretation of Haggai 2:7 there, although I do understand it that way. It was to show Yitzhak that some first century Jews interpreted it of a futuristic fulfillment and could build arguments with other people on the basis of that assumed shared understanding.

This conforms with a considerable amount of Jewish writing in Enoch, 4th Ezra, some Dead Sea Scrolls, and other texts that came to see the Messiah as an eschatological figure. I believe this understanding is already present in the Tanakh and is the basis for the later writing. I accept that Haggai 2:7 is speaking in an eschatological context of events that come at the end of the age. Haggai 2:7 ties in with 2:23 by the figure of a world shaking, and 2:23 can speak symbolically of the Messiah.

Yitzhak argues that a Messianic text in 2:23 would necessarily include an explanation of the symbology, as in Zechariah. However, if the world shaking was understood to be eschatological, such an explanation would not be necessary, since obviously Zerubbabel did not survive that long and must be seen to represent someone else, the Davidic chosen leader.

As I said, many details in Zechariah are not explained fully but are left to the insight of the reader to piece together with other biblical information. And Zechariah speaks of the Davidic king in terms like the "branch" (Zech 3:8, 6:12) that are borrowed from earlier prophets (Isa 11:1; Jer 23:5; Ezek 17:22).

There was a prophetic understanding of an eschatological Messiah, so Haggai in 2:23 could be prophetically adding to that stream of revelation about this figure, who is described in many ways but especially as a Davidic king.

Yours,
Harold Holmyard



Yours,
Harold Holmyard




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