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b-hebrew - [b-hebrew] SAMUEL 1:9 Eating and Drinking to Yigal and Yonah

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  • From: "Chris and Nel" <wattswestmaas AT eircom.net>
  • To: "B-Hebrew" <b-hebrew AT lists.Ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: [b-hebrew] SAMUEL 1:9 Eating and Drinking to Yigal and Yonah
  • Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 20:45:26 +0100

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YIGAL wrote

It would seem that from a grammatical point of view, all of the
interpretations are possible. So it's a matter of context. Why do you assume
that "drinking" means alcohol (and why the capital A?)? And if it does, why
do you think that anyone who drank was drunk (that is, intoxicated)? True,
she later assured Eli that she was not drunk, but that does NOT mean that
she did not partake some of the wine as part of the feast - if indeed there
was any wine at all.

We must be careful not to allow our pre-conceptions to cloud our
interpretations. There might have been alcoholic drinks at early Israelite
sacral feasts, but we do not know. And if there were - that does not mean
that they all went home drunk.
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My Reply to Yigal:

Yigal, I totally agree, not everyone ! BUT The mere fact that Eli was quick to judge Hannah on this, was I feel, demonstrating his experience with the fact that SOME or a FEW people did exactly what Hannah appeared to be doing, but were indeed drunk. Not necessarily inside the tent I agree. Drinking was a part of the feast and feasts in general. He was quick to judge and this leads us to assume that he was familiar with this occurence at feasts.

regards, Chris.
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YONAH wrote

The reason that "drinking" also refers to Hanah is because she is the
subject of the verb WTQM (vat?kom, "and she arose"). If the subject of
$TH (shatoh) were different from Hanah, we would expect a personal
pronoun to indicate the change of subject. I do not agree with your
evaluation of a change in subject here. Hanah is the one mentioned as
eating and drinking, IMHO.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Reply to Yonah:

Yonah, it is rare for an infinitive absolute to be controlled by a preposition. the fact that SHaToH is an infinitive absolute AND follows a preposition leads one to the natural question as to WHY, the narrator has very clearly left room for doubt about Hannah's participation in the drinking by not wording this phrase more clearly, maybe with a fem suffix, maybe making it more clear that he was indeed referring to Hannah and NOT drinking in general. But this is not the case. The vav that joins onto the word "ACHaRei" just after the word for Shiloh seperates it from the previous clause. Why not say "After the eating and drinking in Shilo", instaed of "After the eating in Shilo, and the drinking??? I think that the narrator wished to convey with EMPHASIS the drinking!

One last point, there is a zaquef qaton above the letter 'nun' in Hannah, this is seperating it from the next word which begins the clause about eating. I am not saying that HANNAH DID NOT EAT, but rather that the subtlety of the narrator's conveyance of this apparently simple episode is telling his readers that HANNAH DID NOT FULLY PARTICIPATE IN THE FESTIVITIES AND SACRIFICIAL MEAL, obviously since she was overwhelmed with years of pent-up grief, and she had now reached the end of all that.

Regards Chris.

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:

On 10/20/06, Chris and Nel <wattswestmaas AT eircom.net> wrote:
There seems to be disagreement between my textual workbook and some
translations and the Jewish interpretation concerning specifically the word
"AaCHLaH", alternative infinitive construct, or Infinitive construct with
3rd person fem suffix.

The two interpretations are:
1. after the eating and the drinking in Shiloh
2. After she had eaten and drunk in Shiloh

I dissagree with both and propose what seems to me the most rational
ie...... After her eating in Shiloh and after the drinking.

MEANING: She had eaten BUT the drinking refers to Alchohol which She did
not drink. In other words there was drunkeness in Shiloh. But that Hannah
had indeed eaten but not fully participated in family affairs at that
moment.

It seems that this, for me at least, is explained by TWO things:
1. The verb SHaToH (drink) in Inf Absolute????? while "eat" is in Inf
const.
2. Word order where "in Shiloh" seems to be strategically placed before the
drinking.

I would appreciate your comments, corrections etc.

Chris Watts
Ireland.




  • [b-hebrew] SAMUEL 1:9 Eating and Drinking to Yigal and Yonah, Chris and Nel, 10/22/2006

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