Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Rochelle Altman <willaa AT netvision.net.il>]

> Dear Herman,
>
> > Dear Rochelle,
> > I understand what you mean, but I meant that some people like to count
> > the syllables not as the Masoretes heard them but as they were
> > supposedly "originally intended".
>
> The first error they make is to treat songs as poetry; songs are not 
> poems. This is true also of hymns from Kish, Akkad, and Ugarit. These are 
> all songs that have been examined as if they were poetry. They are not; 
> there is an important distinction here. Songs are to be sung; poems are to 
> be recited. It's not the same thing at all. Compare, say, 1Sam 15:32, 
> which is a charm chant sung by Samuel, with 2Sam 19-27, which is a poem in 
> blank verse, with 2Sam 22:2-51, which is a song -- the latter two Davidic.
>
> (The Davidic songs and poems [including his Psalms] are multivocal to an 
> extent that we do not see again until Shakespeare. Great masters are long 
> and far between -- that's why they are remembered. Davidic works are 
> identifiable by intense multivocalic word play, sound play, sophisticated 
> external and internal structures, and internal cross-linkages. Wheeler 
> claims the marker is lyricism; that, too, but it's not a primary marker.)
>
> The second error is to  count syllables in the songs -- and they also try 
> to force the Biblical songs into a 4/4 metrical scan. That's been going on 
> since the 19th-century.
>
> I have a congenital aversion to being lumped with these folks even by 
> implication. I work with ancient music.
>
> > The fact that for the masora a word
> > like melekh has two syllables doesn't mean that the older 'ancestor'
> > word *malk had two syllables too.
>
> I can check this against the bilingual, if you would like me to. Or, if 
> you'd rather, I can check and see if there's a short article on just this 
> point worth writing up..
>
> > For example, Jan Fokkelman, of whom I attended quite a few lectures in
> > the past in Holland, likes to handle biblical poetry that make. I'm
> > not sure if it's really my cup of tea, but sure he doesn't follow the
> > directions of the masora.
>
> I said MS, not edition of the MT. I start with the bilingual -- the MS 
> that contains the full instructions on *how* to sing the psalm -- 
> including psalm tone, psalm formula, precentor solos, and congregational 
> responses: THEN I check the MT against the bilingual. Where possible, I 
> check against the DSS texts. Now that photographs of the Aleppo are 
> available on-line; I am checking against it, as well.
>
> One thing I have found, which should make people happy, is that the vast 
> majority of philological and linguistic theories are supported by the 
> bilingual and other texts What is often brought into question is the 
> dating of when xyz happened. On the Old English side, some changes that 
> are postulated to have been pre-historic are documented as happening 
> during the historic period. For Hebrew, changes that theoretically 
> occurred late, seem to have happened earlier. Not all, by any means, but 
> enough in both cases.
>
> Overall, the concrete evidence written into the documents supports the 
> theories. The one major problem is that this supporting evidence can only 
> be seen in originals, not in standardized editions. On the Hebrew side, 
> Torah scrolls still retain an incredible amount of ancillary information, 
> even written in square script with nikud and ta'amim. Most of the nikud 
> are unnecessary -- the information is already there...
>
> Never get me started on this material; I tend to run on. Sorry.
>
> Regards,
>
> > Regards
> > ×
> > 2006/2/2, Rochelle Altman <willaa AT netvision.net.il>:
> > > At 11:32 PM 2/1/2006, Herman Meester  wrote:
> > >
> > > >[snip]
> > >
> > > >As there are so many segolates, this is something
> > > >important for those who like to count syllables in the psalms.
> > >
> > > "Like to count syllables in the psalms"??? You have it backwards. The fact
> > > that Adonai is assigned three notes makes it three syllables. Not the 
> > other
> > > way around.
> > >
> > > There is a very big differences between counting syllables and the melodic
> > > structure of ancient music: one note-one syllable, all notes of equal
> > > length. Simple, really.
> > >
> > > Even simpler, just follow the directions written into the MSS.
> > >
> > > >Herman
> > >
> > > Rochelle