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Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Digest, Vol 33, Issue 16

From: "Harold R. Holmyard III" <hholmyard AT ont.com>
To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Digest, Vol 33, Issue 16
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 16:40:42 -0500

Dear Bill,

>>If my memory serves me correctly (I don't have a Hebrew text at

work) another is Gen 16:2 where Sarah is wanting a son through Hagar,
yet the text does not explicitly say so. That meaning comes from
understanding the word play, which I recall as depending on a single
word. In one sense it means to be built up, but it also means Sarai

>>wants a son through Hagar.

>HH: Why do you think the text does not say so? It seems perfectly

explicit.

I checked three tranlation-commentaries last night. These are their
respective comments:-

Speiser, Comment: ``...it is an obvious word play on ben `son' alluding to
`I shall have a son'...''

Plaut, Translation: ``...perhaps I shall have a son through her.''
Comment: ``Have a son. Literally `be built up', a word play on
ben, son and banah, build up''

Alter, Comment: ``The Hebrew 'ibaneh puns on ben `son' and so means "I
will be sonned through her".''

Their colective opinion is that we learn of Sarai's specific desire
for a son, not merely for a child of either sex, by understanding the pun.
I'm not saying this is obscure, Plaut thinks it is so clear he puts the
punned meaning in his translation rather than relegating it to a comment
as do Speiser and Alter.

I think this is a good example because both meanings are so clear.
If we took 'ibaneh out of context and asked what it means we could say
its first person, refers to the future, and means I will be built up.
However, in context, it has a clear second meaning by virtue of it
sounding similar to ben, son.

The writer had a choice of several words which are more directly
related to childbearing that he could have picked from. It seems
clear to me that he chose 'ibaneh over the other options because
of its ability to carry a double meaning in this context.

I'm open to suggestions of other verses which you think would
be better examples.

HH: Thanks for the scholarship, Bill, but I am not particularly impressed this supposed pun. Sarah's words had a plain meaning used elsewhere in the Hebrew Bible. We all know that the ancient Jewish view was that it was especially good to have a son. This notion is present numerous times in the Bible. There is no need to claim an ambiguous pun to obtain that idea. But BNH was used of building a family in a number of verses. Here is part of the HAL entry on BNH:

human beings are built = live on (in their children) (MHb.2 nif., JArm.tg itpe., qal 6) Jr 12:16; 31:4; Mal 3:15; with min a woman obtains a child by Gn 16:2; 30:3.

HH: It would be good to ask these authors whether it is a pun in Gen 30:3 as well. That is another woman. Perhaps this family just loved this pun. It seems that this may be a shorter form of the following expression as indicated in HAL:

BNH BYT L to build a family for, to provide someone with offspring Dt 25:9; to let a person (a nation) live on in his children (said of God; cf. VT 12:345, :: hrs) Jr 24:6; 31:4; 33:7; 42:10; Ps 28:5 ( Bach Fschr. vRad 7ff); n.m. (u®)b§naya¦h, n.loc. yabn§}e¦l

Yours,
Harold Holmyard

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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Ex3:14
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And it is perfectly possible to read Ex3:14 in the context of "I will be,"
so in this instance there is no disconnect between grammar and context.

Solomon Landers

In a message dated 09/12/2005 9:48:47 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
kgraham0938 AT comcast.net writes:

@Vadim: You wrote
Whether a translation asnwers a particular question is irrelevant, though
one can prefer "I am" to "I will be" only on theological grounds. What is
relevant, is grammatical correctness. I showed few weeks ago on this list
that a theory of tenseless Hebrew is absurd, and Hebrew use of tenses is
perfectly consistent. Grammatically, the meaning is "I will be."

Vadim Cherny

Response: Well, don't you think that a translation should make sense? Even
though I understand your point of grammar, I don't think one can do proper
translation without context.

Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Digest, Vol 33, Issue 16, Harold R. Holmyard III, 09/12/2005