Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Read, James C" <K0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk>]

You are of course correct here. But I try to avoid their use 
because I usually have to speak to normal people and I don't 
want to alienate them by using these kind of terms which are 
almost a foreign language to them.

The best translator I have ever met is my wife who speaks 6
languages fluently. If you put her in a village, she almost 
immediately absorbs the local dialect and starts to speak 
just like the locals without even realising she's doing it.
She uses idioma correctly and naturally without a second 
thought to what she is saying but just goes by instinct of 
the way she has heard them used in context.

It is interesting to note that my wife has no idea of grammatical 
concepts and if you try to explain to her what an adjective 
is she clasps her hands on her head with the pain it causes 
her to get her head around such a concept.
The greatest language learners are babies and it undeniable 
that babies do not learn languages grammatically but they 
induce the meaning of combinations of sounds (phonemes) by 
intelligently analysing the context of the situation.
In fact, I firmly believe that grammar is more of a hindrance 
than a help to learning a language and I intend to demonstrate 
this with my AI project.
The purpose of my project is to develop algorithms which analyse 
any input of language. The alphabet it will use will be based 
on phonemes and not the inadequate arrays of alphabets that 
modern languages use.
The algorithms will completely avoid grammar and rely entirely 
on examples and contexts to learn the meanings of words (a word 
is a series of sounds/phonemes and may not necessarily agree with 
the classical division of words we are accustomed to).
It is my aim that this tool will produce a translation of the 
hebrew bible, which is completely devoid of doctrinal influences, 
as a demonstration that the natural way of learning languages 
is the superior one. It's a big project and the algorithms have 
many challenges but I am benefitting from the thoughts posted 
in the various threads.


-----Original Message-----
From: Jim West [mailto:jwest AT highland.net]
Sent: Fri 7/29/2005 3:41 PM
To: Read, James C; b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] heno- v's poly- theismin the torah
 


Read James C wrote:

>Yeah. Whatever. I'm not very big on technical terminology.
>

Really?  And you are at an academic institution in the United Kingdom?  
Critical exegesis and tranlsation are based on the proper understanding 
of, and use of, language.  How can that be done without attention to 
terminology?

> As 
>long as what as I say is clear and easy to understand.
>  
>

But it cannot be clear if it is not precise.

>Henotheism. I'm gonna have to learn that one.
>  
>

*gasp*.

Have a great day James,

Jim

-- 
D. Jim West

Biblical Studies Resources -  http://web.infoave.net/~jwest
Biblical Theology Weblog -  http://biblical-studies.blogspot.com


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I have read many 'scholarly theories' which attack the authorship 
of the torah but my conclusions are.

a)people change constantly. And if *I* wrote a book over a 40 
year period, it would most certainly exhibit different styles 
as my personality continued to change and adapt.
b)the 'scholarly assumption' that yah does not exist and can 
therefore not inspire men to write his words is completely 
unscholarly because it excludes the testimony of the authors
who were obviously in a position to know better.
c)why would the hebrews not object to a group of imposters 
fabricating the writings of their most important prophet 
centuries after his death?
d)for strong reasons of fulfillment of tanak prophecy I hold 
that yehoshua was the messiach and was therefore far more 
qualified than any 'scholar' to comment on the torah's authorship.
Yehoshua's testimony in this regard is clear that he held it to 
be Moses own work.
e)the 'scholarly assumption' that scribblings on the wall of empires 
whose kings frequently invented their own history and deleted their 
defeats and deified themselves are of more historic worth than the 
tanak are completely biased and cannot be taken seriously.

I am, of course, open minded and would welcome any *constructive* 
arguments against Moses as the author of the Torah, as long as we agree 
to keep the discussion on an equal level of respect and give proofs 
based on the primary sources rather than resorting to insulting comments
to prove a point.

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James:

As a person who lives among many Chinese immigrants and who 
speaks Chinese (Cantonese and Toi San), I can assure you 
that the Chinese have no problem with the concept of tense. 
The problem they have is the fact that in Chinese, tense is 
determined by context, whereas in English it is determined 
by grammatization, and they often have problems recognizing 
and utilizing the grammatization of tenses.

Similarly, Rolf Furuli as I understand him is arguing the 
same thing exists in ancient Hebrew, that the different 
forms do not reflect a grammatization of tense. Rather 
tense is to be recognized by context. Therefore, when we 
translate into English, when we use tenses, we are adding 
our understanding of the context.

Karl W. Randolph.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Read, James C" <K0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk>
> 
> 
> 
> Thanx for your example Rolf. While most of the tenses seem to read well
> you have left me a little confused. You have argued that your research
> is based on the word and that the word is the basic unit of translation
> and then you have performed a translation which is entirely based on context
> as I have been arguing it should be.
>...
> 
> I know this sounds strange and alien to speakers of tense driven languages 
> but
> I am told, correct me if I wrong, that Chinese languages also exhibit this
> behaviour and that it is very difficult for the Chinese to even 
> understand the concept
> of tenses when learning the English language.
> 
> Hence, as you seem to have shown Rolf, it is the context which dictates the
> translation and not the verb form and your research only seems of use to me
> in helping a biblical hebrew student to better understand the hebrew mind
> and concept of expression.
> 



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