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  • From: "Read, James C" <K0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk>
  • To: "Jim West" <jwest AT highland.net>
  • Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] heno- v's poly- theismin the torah
  • Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 16:39:19 +0100

You are of course correct here. But I try to avoid their use
because I usually have to speak to normal people and I don't
want to alienate them by using these kind of terms which are
almost a foreign language to them.

The best translator I have ever met is my wife who speaks 6
languages fluently. If you put her in a village, she almost
immediately absorbs the local dialect and starts to speak
just like the locals without even realising she's doing it.
She uses idioma correctly and naturally without a second
thought to what she is saying but just goes by instinct of
the way she has heard them used in context.

It is interesting to note that my wife has no idea of grammatical
concepts and if you try to explain to her what an adjective
is she clasps her hands on her head with the pain it causes
her to get her head around such a concept.
The greatest language learners are babies and it undeniable
that babies do not learn languages grammatically but they
induce the meaning of combinations of sounds (phonemes) by
intelligently analysing the context of the situation.
In fact, I firmly believe that grammar is more of a hindrance
than a help to learning a language and I intend to demonstrate
this with my AI project.
The purpose of my project is to develop algorithms which analyse
any input of language. The alphabet it will use will be based
on phonemes and not the inadequate arrays of alphabets that
modern languages use.
The algorithms will completely avoid grammar and rely entirely
on examples and contexts to learn the meanings of words (a word
is a series of sounds/phonemes and may not necessarily agree with
the classical division of words we are accustomed to).
It is my aim that this tool will produce a translation of the
hebrew bible, which is completely devoid of doctrinal influences,
as a demonstration that the natural way of learning languages
is the superior one. It's a big project and the algorithms have
many challenges but I am benefitting from the thoughts posted
in the various threads.


-----Original Message-----
From: Jim West [mailto:jwest AT highland.net]
Sent: Fri 7/29/2005 3:41 PM
To: Read, James C; b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] heno- v's poly- theismin the torah



Read James C wrote:

>Yeah. Whatever. I'm not very big on technical terminology.
>

Really? And you are at an academic institution in the United Kingdom?
Critical exegesis and tranlsation are based on the proper understanding
of, and use of, language. How can that be done without attention to
terminology?

> As
>long as what as I say is clear and easy to understand.
>
>

But it cannot be clear if it is not precise.

>Henotheism. I'm gonna have to learn that one.
>
>

*gasp*.

Have a great day James,

Jim

--
D. Jim West

Biblical Studies Resources - http://web.infoave.net/~jwest
Biblical Theology Weblog - http://biblical-studies.blogspot.com


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I have read many 'scholarly theories' which attack the authorship
of the torah but my conclusions are.

a)people change constantly. And if *I* wrote a book over a 40
year period, it would most certainly exhibit different styles
as my personality continued to change and adapt.
b)the 'scholarly assumption' that yah does not exist and can
therefore not inspire men to write his words is completely
unscholarly because it excludes the testimony of the authors
who were obviously in a position to know better.
c)why would the hebrews not object to a group of imposters
fabricating the writings of their most important prophet
centuries after his death?
d)for strong reasons of fulfillment of tanak prophecy I hold
that yehoshua was the messiach and was therefore far more
qualified than any 'scholar' to comment on the torah's authorship.
Yehoshua's testimony in this regard is clear that he held it to
be Moses own work.
e)the 'scholarly assumption' that scribblings on the wall of empires
whose kings frequently invented their own history and deleted their
defeats and deified themselves are of more historic worth than the
tanak are completely biased and cannot be taken seriously.

I am, of course, open minded and would welcome any *constructive*
arguments against Moses as the author of the Torah, as long as we agree
to keep the discussion on an equal level of respect and give proofs
based on the primary sources rather than resorting to insulting comments
to prove a point.

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James:

As a person who lives among many Chinese immigrants and who
speaks Chinese (Cantonese and Toi San), I can assure you
that the Chinese have no problem with the concept of tense.
The problem they have is the fact that in Chinese, tense is
determined by context, whereas in English it is determined
by grammatization, and they often have problems recognizing
and utilizing the grammatization of tenses.

Similarly, Rolf Furuli as I understand him is arguing the
same thing exists in ancient Hebrew, that the different
forms do not reflect a grammatization of tense. Rather
tense is to be recognized by context. Therefore, when we
translate into English, when we use tenses, we are adding
our understanding of the context.

Karl W. Randolph.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Read, James C" <K0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk>
>
>
>
> Thanx for your example Rolf. While most of the tenses seem to read well
> you have left me a little confused. You have argued that your research
> is based on the word and that the word is the basic unit of translation
> and then you have performed a translation which is entirely based on context
> as I have been arguing it should be.
>...
>
> I know this sounds strange and alien to speakers of tense driven languages
> but
> I am told, correct me if I wrong, that Chinese languages also exhibit this
> behaviour and that it is very difficult for the Chinese to even
> understand the concept
> of tenses when learning the English language.
>
> Hence, as you seem to have shown Rolf, it is the context which dictates the
> translation and not the verb form and your research only seems of use to me
> in helping a biblical hebrew student to better understand the hebrew mind
> and concept of expression.
>



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