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Re: [b-hebrew] Iron sharpeneth iron? (Prov. 27:17)
- From: Peter Kirk <peterkirk AT qaya.org>
- To: "B. M. Rocine" <brocine AT twcny.rr.com>
- Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
- Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Iron sharpeneth iron? (Prov. 27:17)
- Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 23:48:42 +0100
On 29/06/2005 21:18, B. M. Rocine wrote:
Hi Luke, you wrote:A closer look shows that there is no ambiguity in BHS. The vowels of the first occurrence are ambiguous, but the accent, on the first syllable of YAXAD, in both cases implies the adverb (originally a noun) "together", with a retracted "segholate" accent, rather than a verb, which would always be stressed on the last syllable. Also the second occurrence is vocalised with two patahs, which implies the adverb, rather than with qamats and patah as for the verb. The first occurrence has qamets and patah because the stressed patah has changed to qamets "in pause" i.e. on the major sentence accent, by a regular rule. So the Masoretic text unambiguously rules out a verb form here, and strongly suggests the adverb "together". And this makes sense if we consider the force of magnetism, which indeed unites pieces of iron in a way comparable to close friendship - a rather more appropriate image than welding, in my opinion.
The Hebrew sentence in question, without the vowels, is as follows: -
brzl bbrzl yhd w'yš yhd pny r'hw
The dispute is over the vowel points in Hebrew word that's translated
traditionally as 'sharpens', or possibly as 'united'. Without the
vowel points the Hebrew word is ' yhd ', I think (sorry if that's
not how the MCW puts it).
Actually, I don't see what vowels have to do with it. Even with the vowels as in the BHS, the word is ambiguous, meaning "together" or "it (he) sharpens."
On the other hand, the LXX OXUNEI and PAROXUNEI "sharpens" suggests a reading as a verb form. But this could well be one of the many places where the LXX translators misunderstood the Hebrew.
--
Peter Kirk
peter AT qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/
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-
[b-hebrew] Iron sharpeneth iron? (Prov. 27:17),
Luke Buckler, 06/29/2005
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Iron sharpeneth iron? (Prov. 27:17),
B. M. Rocine, 06/29/2005
- Re: [b-hebrew] Iron sharpeneth iron? (Prov. 27:17), Peter Kirk, 06/29/2005
- <Possible follow-up(s)>
- Re: [b-hebrew] Iron sharpeneth iron? (Prov. 27:17), Karl Randolph, 06/29/2005
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Iron sharpeneth iron? (Prov. 27:17),
B. M. Rocine, 06/29/2005
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