Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Evgeny Ivanov <evi7538 AT yahoo.com>]

Dear friends,
 
I was thinking recently about the mystery of vav-consequtive. My 
understandning is that the first imperfect verb brings the reference point in 
time to the event of that first action, and then all consequtive verbs would 
be in the future as seen from that reference point in time. This is a 
different sense of time compared to modern languages. 
 
Traditionally the imperfect verbs in vav-consequtive form are translated as 
perfect. However, if the above understanding of vav-consequtive is correct, 
the actual  time of their action with respect to the present moment is 
unknow. It is unknown whether the action has been finished by now, or it is 
still going to be finished. The only thing known for sure is that the action 
was not finished at the moment of the first action in the vav-consequtive 
sentence. So the form of the verbs (and time of actions) in vav-consequtive 
form would rather be determined by exegesis and context.
 
For example, in Genesis 2.1-2.3 the actions are translated in perfect form: 
"And the heaven and earth were finished". However, literal translation would 
rather be that they are not finished at the time when the action of the first 
verb in the vav-chain happened (which is probably Gen1.1), but it's unknown 
whether they are finished by the present moment or not.
 
Would you agree with this understandidng of vav-consequtive phenomenon?
 
   
Shalom,
Evgeny
 
 

 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
>From joel AT exc.com  Wed Apr 27 12:46:26 2005
Return-Path: <joel AT exc.com>
X-Original-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Received: from mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.199])
        by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDEF94C006
        for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:46:26 -0400 
(EDT)
Received: from exc.com (ool-44c6ce71.dyn.optonline.net [68.198.206.113])
        by mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net
        (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar  3 2004))
        with ESMTP id <0IFM00DFM6L6FC AT mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for
        b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:46:18 -0400 (EDT)
Received: (2614 bytes) by exc.com       via sendmail with 
P:stdio/R:smart_host/T:smtp
        (sender: <joel AT exc.com>)        id <m1DQpa5-000GhjC AT exc.com>    for
        b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:40:09 -0400
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:40:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Dr. Joel M. Hoffman" <joel AT exc.com>
Subject: Re: Hebrew spelling [was: Re: [b-hebrew] karu or ka'ari (Ps 22:16) ?]
In-reply-to: <20050427153809.0B8EA485EB AT metalab.unc.edu>
To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Message-id: <m1DQpa5-000GhjC AT exc.com>
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
References: <20050427153809.0B8EA485EB AT metalab.unc.edu>
Cc: 
X-BeenThere: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: Hebrew Bible List <b-hebrew.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew>
List-Post: <mailto:b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:46:26 -0000

>wouldn't be before that time.  So I ask- when was Hebrew spelling 
>"normailzed"?  And bibliography would be helpful (so I can check up to 
>see if you are telling the truth).  ;-)

Interestingly, Hebrew spelling *still* is not fully normalized:

1.  The Academy publishes official spelling rules for _matres
    lectiones_, but these are widely disregarded (even by people who
    can understand them).

2.  So great is the disparity between the official spelling and the
    popular spelling that even common words such as MIXTAV ("letter")
    are spelled one way in Israeli dictionaries and another way in
    best-selling Israeli novels.

3.  The result is that common words frequently enjoy a variety of
    spellings.  Educated Israelis, for example, will regularly
    disagree about how many yud's and vav's to put into a word.  The
    "official" spelling often looks so bad that Israelis refuse to use
    it (which is why Israeli novels and newspapers do not always
    follow the official spellings).

4.  The problem is not limited to yud and vav.  For example, the
    Hebrew word for "discipline" (as in subject matter, not
    MIShMA'AT), is a cognate with the English, but people disagree
    about how to spell it.  Some people prefer DITzIPLINAH (Tz=Tzadi);
    some prefer DISTzIPLINAH, with a Samech.  But the official
    spelling is DISKIPLINAH, which sounds ridiculous.

As for classical Hebrew, we frequently find the same word spelled
differently even within a sentence.  And the "official" text of the OT
is still subject to minor variations.  The widely-used Mandelkern
concordance, for example, lists some spellings that disagree with the
BHS text.

As for a bibliography, the spelling of Hebrew throughout history is
one a handful of running themes of my latest book (_In the Beginning:
A Short History of the Hebrew Language_, NYU Press), but I don't
suppose that citing myself will go too far in convincing you that I'm
telling the truth....

You might look at Even Shoshan's dictionary (in Hebrew) and Milon
Sapir (also in Hebrew).  The former contains the official Israeli
spelling guidelines; comparing the two highlights some of the
spellings disagreements.

-Joel