Biblical Hebrew Forum

[kgraham0938 AT comcast.net]

Yes, that sounds good, although I'd translate Nisa as "take away" as oppose 
to bear, but the rest sounds good.

--
Kelton Graham 
KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net

-------------- Original message -------------- 

> thankyou Kelton. Could Joshua 23:21 be translated: 
> 
> ."..... He will not bear with your trangressions...."? this was my idea; 
> and 
> you said 'with regards to' which could be the same? what do you think? 
> 
> I read van de merwe on this and Gesenius and could not really fit it into 
> anything except what you say, a specification but i was not sure so 
> thankyou. If you know anywhere in Gesenius where there are more details 
> about this I would appreciate that. 
> 
> Best regards 
> Chris watts, ireland 
> 
> 
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>From kwrandolph AT email.com  Mon Apr 25 00:45:43 2005
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From: "Karl Randolph" <kwrandolph AT email.com>
To: Hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 23:47:38 -0500
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] karu or ka'ari (Ps 22:16) ?
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Walter:

The answer is =93in dispute=94.

First, I have heard that there is at least one manuscript that has K)RW ins=
tead of K)RY, which then would make it a verb that fits the context.

Some Jewish authors insist that it must be read as a prefix K- on )RY, =93a=
s a lion=94 but that makes no grammatical nor linguistic sense.

As a verb, possibly it is used also in Amos 8:8, and nowhere else in Tanakh.

As a verb, K)R would then be a rarely used one, with possibly the meaning o=
f piercing, wounding.

This could be a copyest error for KRW or some other verb, but with the alep=
h in the center of a verb almost always a hard aleph (in other=20
words, it cannot be removed without changing the meaning) I find that unlik=
ely.

So the final answer is that we can=92t be sure. Ancient Jewish Christians g=
ave one meaning to the verse, a meaning that has carried by tradition=20
to the present. Other Jews contested that reading. Without consulting a nat=
ive speaker, it probably is impossible to resolve the disagreement.

Karl W. Randolph.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter R. Mattfeld" <mattfeld12 AT charter.net>
>=20
> I have a question of scholars on this list versed in Hebrew, is the=20
> following information correct or incorrect, or "in dispute" as to=20
> meaning regarding the word karu or ka'ari ?
>=20
> Cf. the below quoted statement:
>=20
> "On Psalm 22:16 "they pierced my hands and my feet" (King James=20
> Version), Christians here found a famous example of an explicit=20
> prefiguration of Jesus's sufferings. In the Gospel story, the=20
> Romans pierce his hands and feet with nails in preparation for his=20
> being hung upon the cross. Nitzachon Vetus answered that the word=20
> given in the Latin translation as "they pierced" is written in the=20
> Hebrew original not as karu ("they pierced"), but as ka'ari ("like=20
> a lion"). The entire verse is properly translated, "For dogs have=20
> surrounded me; a pack of evildoers has enclosed me, like a lion=20
> [at] my hands and my feet." In biblical poetry, such as in the book=20
> of Psalms, the second half of a verse typically echoes the first.=20
> With this in mind, we should expect the imagery of being torn by=20
> wild beasts to be consistent from phrase to phrase -and it is. A=20
> modern update of the King James Bible, the Revised Standard=20
> Version, now includes a footnote acknowledging the more authentic=20
> translation of the verse." (p. 168. David Klinghoffer. Why The Jews=20
> Rejected Jesus. New York. Doubleday. 2005. ISBN 0-385-51021-7)
>=20
> Regards, Walter
> Walter Reinhold Warttig Mattfeld y de la Torre, M.A. Ed.
> mattfeld12 AT charter.net
> www.bibleorigins.net
--=20
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