Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

b-hebrew - [b-hebrew] Yahwism (was; their altars)

b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: Uri Hurwitz <uhurwitz AT yahoo.com>
  • To: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon AT historian.net>, b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Cc:
  • Subject: [b-hebrew] Yahwism (was; their altars)
  • Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 10:54:21 -0800 (PST)


Yahwism was not a monolithic belief. It is common in many belief systems
that some sectors maintain a more primitive and ancient form. In the case
of Yahweh, there are some in ancient Palestine who held on to the primitive
"bull" and his heifer consort, Asherah. The names EL (also Ba'al) and YHWH
may have been merged as an hypocoristicon. The Qal of hwh taken from a
TITLE phrase as a hypocoristicon of EL, ala Albright and Cross? A title
like "El causes something to come into
being". The use of HWH, therefore appears to be WAY down on the trunk of
the NWSem tree where it became a loan word from Aramaic to early Hebrew.

The bull YHWH of the pithoi depicted with his heifer consort Asherah
probably reflects the early hypocoristicon of EL. I believe the ashes of
the red heifer are related to this very early form and to Asherah. Asherah
continued to be special to women even into late 2nd temple times. The
Yahweh of the Bronze Age Canaanites and the Yahweh of the Rabbis may have
had a common ascendancy but were no longer the same.

Jack Kilmon


-----
______________________________________________

Dakma daEBadton l'chad min hoLEYN AHi zeOreh ly haw EBadton

Jack Kilmon
San Marcos, Tx
jkilmon at historian


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
>From peterkirk AT qaya.org Sun Mar 6 14:29:42 2005
Return-Path: <peterkirk AT qaya.org>
X-Original-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Received: from pan.hu-pan.com (hu-pan.com [67.15.6.3])
by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EB434C00B
for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Sun, 6 Mar 2005 14:29:42 -0500
(EST)
Received: from 213-162-124-237.peterk253.adsl.metronet.co.uk
([213.162.124.237] helo=[10.0.0.1])
by pan.hu-pan.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44)
id 1D81Rc-0001T0-Jt; Sun, 06 Mar 2005 19:29:40 +0000
Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.6.2]);
Sun, 06 Mar 2005 19:27:21 +0000
Message-ID: <422B5999.9060105 AT qaya.org>
Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 19:27:21 +0000
From: Peter Kirk <peterkirk AT qaya.org>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041217
X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en, en-us, az, ru, tr, he, el, fr, de
To: Yitzhak Sapir <yitzhaksapir AT gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] re: their altars
References: <422889F8.8000809 AT highland.net>
<e6ea6c0005030513482b213274 AT mail.gmail.com>
<422A6402.5090701 AT qaya.org>
<e6ea6c0005030518484b52b312 AT mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <e6ea6c0005030518484b52b312 AT mail.gmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,
please include it with any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - pan.hu-pan.com
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lists.ibiblio.org
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - qaya.org
X-Source:
X-Source-Args:
X-Source-Dir:
Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-BeenThere: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: Hebrew Bible List <b-hebrew.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
<mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew>
List-Post: <mailto:b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
<mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 19:29:42 -0000

On 06/03/2005 02:48, Yitzhak Sapir wrote:

> ...
>
>My argument was that perhaps the Yahwist's home was Kuntillet Ajrud. Not
>that we need to revise any evidence. It was just argued that the view at
>Kuntillet Ajrud was odd and aberrant or not in line with the establishment's
>view. Now, as for your claim that the concept of an Asherah is
>repugnant, Asherah
>is found only once in the Torah outside Deut ...
>

Yes, but this is not the only literature describing the period in
question. There are for example the accounts in Kings. Their dating and
relaibility is perhaps uncertain, but then so is that of J and the rest
of the Torah. Nevertheless, this is evidence which must not be ignored.

>Just to make it clear, the argument goes: circumstantial evidence is
>used to back
>up the claim that perhaps the Yahwist's home was Kuntillet Ajrud. Now, the
>evidence is circumstantial, but there is no evidence to any contrary
>position. We
>have no evidence for Yahweh worship in this time in Jerusalem, for example.
>...
>

Yes we do. Well, at least we have detailed accounts of Yahweh worship in
Jerusalem in the 10th century, and some less detailed accounts from the
9th century, e.g. the time of Asa and Jehoshaphat, including a specific
mention that an Asherah (an image of Asherah?) was rejected and
destroyed, 1 Kings 15:13.


>...
>And all I argue
>from this hypothesis is that one cannot claim that "but this was
>clearly not the
>view of the establishment." There is no "clearly" about it.
>
>
>
It was clearly not the view of the establishment as presented in the
books of Kings, I agree that we cannot be sure that this was the actual
view of the establishment a couple of centuries earlier, but note that
the author of Kings notes carefully distinctions between the
establishment views of Asa and Jehoshaphat and his own views, in 1 Kings
15:14, 22:43. This looks to me like the mark of real historical
reminiscence.

...

>
>They worshipped Yahweh of Samaria, and the Yahwistic component in their
>names is a short one like in Israel, as opposed to Judah. So I think that is
>sufficient reason for that claim.
>
>
>
If Samaria was their own home, why did they need to specify "of
Samaria"? This sounds to me more like a conscious invocation of someone
else' god.

--
Peter Kirk
peter AT qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 04/03/2005




  • [b-hebrew] Yahwism (was; their altars), Uri Hurwitz, 03/06/2005

Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page