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Re: [b-hebrew] Why assume the Masoretes recorded spoken Hebrew?
- From: Peter Kirk <peterkirk AT qaya.org>
- To: Vadim Cherny <VadimCherny AT mail.ru>
- Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
- Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Why assume the Masoretes recorded spoken Hebrew?
- Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 13:17:37 +0000
On 10/02/2005 12:36, Peter Kirk wrote:
...I failed to complete this part of my posting before sending it. Here is a continuation:
According to Terence Wade's "A Comprehensive Russian Grammar", the following vowel sounds are heard in Russian (in IPA, you need Unicode to read some of these):
Stressed: a ɛ u o ɨ i e æ ö ü Unstressed (additional): ɩ ɩ̵ ʌ ə
This list indicated that modern phoneticians hear more distinct vowel sounds in modern spoken Russian (as well as English and many other modern languages) than the Masoretes heard in Hebrew.
Wade notes (p.5, 2nd edition of Wade):
The vowels o and a arepronounced as [o] and [a] only when they appear in stressed position...
In pre-tonic position or as the unstressed initial letter in a word o and a are pronounced [ʌ] ...
In pre-pre-tonic position (except as initial letters...) or in post-tonic position both vowels are pronounced [ə]...
This is very like the position in Hebrew. The full vowel sound e.g. qamats or holam is found only in stressed syllables, plus in Hebrew only in open unstressed syllables. In unstressed syllables just before the stress (in Hebrew, only when closed) the vowel is shortened e.g. to patah or qamats qatan. And in pre-pre-tonic position (but this time in Hebrew only in open syllables) there is a further shortening or modification to the schwa sound - but not word initially after alef. The details are nt identical, but the general picture is remarkably similar. It is also in English, because these kinds of vowel reductions are common across languages.
What is unusual about the Masoretes is that they attempted to record fine phonetic distinctions which had no semantic significance, whereas most modern Latin and Cyrillic alphabets are more phonemic i.e. not recording these fine distinctions.
--
Peter Kirk
peter AT qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/
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[b-hebrew] Why assume the Masoretes recorded spoken Hebrew?,
Vadim Cherny, 02/09/2005
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Re: [b-hebrew] Why assume the Masoretes recorded spoken Hebrew?,
Peter Kirk, 02/09/2005
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Why assume the Masoretes recorded spoken Hebrew?,
Vadim Cherny, 02/09/2005
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Why assume the Masoretes recorded spoken Hebrew?,
Peter Kirk, 02/09/2005
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Why assume the Masoretes recorded spoken Hebrew?,
Vadim Cherny, 02/10/2005
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Why assume the Masoretes recorded spoken Hebrew?,
Peter Kirk, 02/10/2005
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Why assume the Masoretes recorded spoken Hebrew?,
Peter Kirk, 02/10/2005
- Re: [b-hebrew] Why assume the Masoretes recorded spoken Hebrew?, Vadim Cherny, 02/10/2005
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Message not available
- Message not available
- Re: [b-hebrew] Why assume the Masoretes recorded spoken Hebrew?, Vadim Cherny, 02/10/2005
- Re: [b-hebrew] Why assume the Masoretes recorded spoken Hebrew?, Peter Kirk, 02/10/2005
- Re: [b-hebrew] Why assume the Masoretes recorded spoken Hebrew?, Vadim Cherny, 02/11/2005
- Re: [b-hebrew] Why assume the Masoretes recorded spoken Hebrew?, Peter Kirk, 02/11/2005
- Re: [b-hebrew] Why assume the Masoretes recorded spoken Hebrew?, Vadim Cherny, 02/11/2005
- Re: [b-hebrew] Why assume the Masoretes recorded spoken Hebrew?, Peter Kirk, 02/11/2005
- Re: [b-hebrew] Why assume the Masoretes recorded spoken Hebrew?, Vadim Cherny, 02/11/2005
- Re: [b-hebrew] Why assume the Masoretes recorded spoken Hebrew?, Peter Kirk, 02/11/2005
- Re: [b-hebrew] Why assume the Masoretes recorded spoken Hebrew?, Vadim Cherny, 02/13/2005
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Re: [b-hebrew] Why assume the Masoretes recorded spoken Hebrew?,
Peter Kirk, 02/10/2005
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Re: [b-hebrew] Why assume the Masoretes recorded spoken Hebrew?,
Peter Kirk, 02/10/2005
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Why assume the Masoretes recorded spoken Hebrew?,
Vadim Cherny, 02/10/2005
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Why assume the Masoretes recorded spoken Hebrew?,
Peter Kirk, 02/09/2005
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Why assume the Masoretes recorded spoken Hebrew?,
Vadim Cherny, 02/09/2005
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Re: [b-hebrew] Why assume the Masoretes recorded spoken Hebrew?,
Peter Kirk, 02/09/2005
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