Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Harold R. Holmyard III" <hholmyard AT ont.com>]

Dear Karl,

> And the people said unto
>  > > Samuel, ‘Who is he who said, ‘Saul will be king over us?’?’ Allow
> >  > us that we may cause him to die.”. In this case, that the second
> >  > half of the question is understood as a question in itself, is
> >  > not a grammatical feature, but a stylistic use of a statement to
>  > > carry the idea of a question. Is that what you mean?

HH: One more time, Karl, this translation does 
not suit the context. It would mean that people 
are quoting those who originally said "Saul will 
be king over us." But if they had said that, then 
there would be no reason to kill them.

> You have mistranslated the verse. You have put 
> what was grammatically a statement in Hebrew 
> into what is grammatically a question in English.

HH: No, I have not mistranslated the verse, 
because in Hebrew there can be grammatically 
unmarked questions. There is a section on this in 
Gesenius' Grammar (#150). Other examples listed 
include Gen 27:24; Gen 18:12; 1 Sam 22:7; 2 Sam 
16:17; 18:29; 1 Sam 16:4; 1 Kings 1:24; Is 28:28; 
Zech 8:6; Jonah 4:11; Ex 8:22; Judges 11:23; 
14:16; 1 Sam 20:9; 24:20; 25:11; 2 Sam 11:11; 
15:20; Is 37:11; 44:19; Jer 25:29; 45:5; 49:12; 
Ezek 20:31; Job 2:10; 10:9; 2 Kings 5:26; Lam 3:28

> Getting back to B-Hebrew, notice how my question 
> is framed grammatically as a statement, yet the 
> context and inflection at the end change it to 
> be understood as a question. And like the 
> statement in 1 Samuel 11:12, it expects a 
> negative response.

HH: What question of your are you talking about? 
I thought you were giving a translation of 1 Sam 
11:12, so how can it be like 1 Sam 11:12? If you 
are trying to say that the statement in 1 Sam 
11:12 is a statement that is supposed to be 
understood as a question, then I reply, 'If it is 
supposed to be understood as a question, then it 
is a question." If something is supposed to be 
understood as a question, a translator probably 
needs to translate it as a question.

>  While the Hebrew consonental text cannot show 
> inflection, I see how the context can lead to 
> the understanding that this is a statement that 
> is to be understood as a question. (Incidently, 
> it does not come near to quoting the question 
> posed in 1 Samuel 10:27, but that grammatical 
> question is part of the context leading to the 
> understanding of the statement as a question.)

HH; Right.

> Whereas in English, the grammatical form 
> indicating a question is the word order, that is 
> not true in B-Hebrew. However, Bryan has shown 
> that certain word constructs counterindicate 
> questions, even the understanding of a statement 
> as a question, among those the particular word 
> structure found in Proverbs 5:16. There is no 
> grammatical indication that it is a question, 
> and I see no need to read it as a question.

HH: The context shows that Prov 5:16 is a 
question. There can be grammatically unmarked 
questions in Hebrew. This is probably the last 
comment that I am going to make on this thread, 
since I am just repeating myself.

                                        Yours,
                                        Harold Holmyard