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  • From: "Yigal Levin" <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>
  • To: "b-hebrew" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>, <biblical-studies AT yahoogroups.com>
  • Cc:
  • Subject: [b-hebrew] "about" Josh. 7:4-5
  • Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:48:10 +0200

According to Joshua 7:4, Joshua's first attempt at capturing Ai was made with
ke$lo$et alapim i$, "about three thousand men". In the next verse, the men of
Ai smote of them ke$lo$im ve$iSah i$, "about thirty six men".

The prefix kaph is usually translated "like", "about" and so on. However in
this context, "about 36" does not make sense. 36 is an exact number. I know
that the Greek gives "eis", "into", but that doesn't explain anything. I've
seen theories ranging from scribal error (dittography due to the preceding
"ke$lo$et" - but with no textual evidence) through a theory of a 6-based
system of counting, to the midrash that only Jair ben Manasseh was killed,
but he was "like 36 men". I know that "eleph" is often thought to be a
military or clan unit, so "about three elephs" makes sense. I also know that
"$elo$im" may also be a military unit (as in 2 Sam. 23), so that "about a
$elo$im" would also work, but then what about the extra 6? "about a $elo$im
and six" does not.

And before anyone asks, the only known Qumran version (4QJosh a and b) is
missing this particular column.

Any ideas?

Yigal Levin
(and please excuse the cross-posting)
>From uhurwitz AT yahoo.com Wed Dec 15 11:35:43 2004
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Wed, 15 Dec 2004 08:35:41 PST
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 08:35:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Uri Hurwitz <uhurwitz AT yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] "about" Josh. 7:4-5
To: Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>, b-hebrew
<b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
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This may be simply another example of an ancient scribal mistake -- either
in verse 4 or the next one.
Another example is Isaiah 53:8, the ending of which was much discussed here
in recent days.The Heb. text there was garbled.
In such cases, and as Karl pointed out, quite a few occur in the MT, any
suggested solution must be speculative, that is till the reappearance of
Elijah who, according to the Talmudic expression, will solve questions and
problems.
(incidentally the acronym of the above saying serves as the word for "draw"
in modern Heb. for sporting events etc.)

Uri

Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il> wrote:
According to Joshua 7:4, Joshua's first attempt at capturing Ai was made with
ke$lo$et alapim i$, "about three thousand men". In the next verse, the men of
Ai smote of them ke$lo$im ve$iSah i$, "about thirty six men".

The prefix kaph is usually translated "like", "about" and so on. However in
this context, "about 36" does not make sense. 36 is an exact number. I know
that the Greek gives "eis", "into", but that doesn't explain anything. I've
seen theories ranging from scribal error (dittography due to the preceding
"ke$lo$et" - but with no textual evidence) through a theory of a 6-based
system of counting, to the midrash that only Jair ben Manasseh was killed,
but he was "like 36 men". I know that "eleph" is often thought to be a
military or clan unit, so "about three elephs" makes sense. I also know that
"$elo$im" may also be a military unit (as in 2 Sam. 23), so that "about a
$elo$im" would also work, but then what about the extra 6? "about a $elo$im
and six" does not.

And before anyone asks, the only known Qumran version (4QJosh a and b) is
missing this particular column.

Any ideas?

Yigal Levin
(and please excuse the cross-posting)
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b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew



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>From hholmyard AT ont.com Wed Dec 15 11:40:01 2004
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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 10:37:50 -0600
To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
From: "Harold R. Holmyard III" <hholmyard AT ont.com>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] "about" Josh. 7:4-5
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Dear Yigal,

>According to Joshua 7:4, Joshua's first attempt at capturing Ai was
>made with ke$lo$et alapim i$, "about three thousand men". In the
>next verse, the men of Ai smote of them ke$lo$im ve$iSah i$, "about
>thirty six men".
>
>The prefix kaph is usually translated "like", "about" and so on.
>However in this context, "about 36" does not make sense. 36 is an
>exact number.

HH: Maybe they knew that thirty-six men died, but they were not sure
whether the men of Ai were directly responsible for all the deaths.
Perhaps someone could have mistakenly run off a cliff or something.

Yours,
Harold Holmyard



> I know that the Greek gives "eis", "into", but that doesn't explain
>anything. I've seen theories ranging from scribal error (dittography
>due to the preceding "ke$lo$et" - but with no textual evidence)
>through a theory of a 6-based system of counting, to the midrash
>that only Jair ben Manasseh was killed, but he was "like 36 men". I
>know that "eleph" is often thought to be a military or clan unit, so
>"about three elephs" makes sense. I also know that "$elo$im" may
>also be a military unit (as in 2 Sam. 23), so that "about a $elo$im"
>would also work, but then what about the extra 6? "about a $elo$im
>and six" does not.
>
>And before anyone asks, the only known Qumran version (4QJosh a and
>b) is missing this particular column.
>
>Any ideas?
>
>Yigal Levin
>(and please excuse the cross-posting)
>_______________________________________________
>b-hebrew mailing list
>b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew





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