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  • From: "Harold R. Holmyard III" <hholmyard AT ont.com>
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] 'Prophesying' 1 Samuel 18:10
  • Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 19:17:25 -0500

Dear Peter,

HH: All that you wrote seems good to me. Yet if one is possessed by an evil spirit, he is not prophesying in the normal sense. So "rave" or "act like a prophet" might be the way to translate. I said that the Hithpael can suggest: "He may present himself as something either truthfully or not truthfully." Specifically Waltke and O'Connor said that one esteems or presents "oneself in a state, sometimes without regard to the question of truthfulness."

OK. But "act like a prophet" sounds like deliberate deception on behalf of the "prophet", but this is not necessarily true of later false prophets and almost certainly not of Saul.

HH: The precise connotation of the Hithpael does not have to be the same in every context.

More likely they genuinely believed they were passing on a message from a spirit, but in the view of those who opposed them that spirit was an evil or lying spirit and the message was not from God - especially when that message was a spear tip speeding towards David. But in the Hebrew Bible even the lying spirits are from God, see also 1 Kings 22:21-23.

HH: The circumstance with Saul was not necessarily characteristic for false prophets. The penalty for false
prophecy was death. They were culpable to the extreme. I feel confident that they knew they were doing
wrong. And "pretend to do something" is definitely one of the meanings possible with the Hithpael. That does not mean I was recommending it when I mentioned it but rather just stating the possibility.

HH: There is a sense in which a false prophet is prophesying. He is going through the motions. But in another sense he is not prophesying, since it's not the real thing, which comes from God.

I don't like "rave" either because it implies something about the physical manifestations which we don't really know.

HH: BDB doesn't give "rave" as a gloss for NB) like the Dictionary of Classical Hebrew does, but it does indicate that NB) in the Hithpael can involve frenzy, excitement to violence, and an ecstatic state. Webster's Dictionary says that "rave" involves talking with extreme enthusiasm, moving or advancing violently, or uttering in madness or frenzy. Other ideas for rave include:

To speak or write with wild enthusiasm (American Heritage)

To talk in a noisy, excited, or declamatory manner (One Look)

HH: This last is quite broad and would probably include a situation of prophesying of almost any type.

This may fit 1 Samuel 18:10, and it may be a suitable pejorative term for false prophecy, or for true prophecy from a king who rejected it e.g. Jer 29:26, but I don't think it can be used more generally.

HH: Every translation of a word must look at the context of the particular usage.

Indeed, reviewing the verses you gave earlier, "rave" could be used properly only at 1 Samuel 18:10 and 1 Kings 18:29, but I wouldn't recommend it in either place because it loses the theological link. In Jer 29:26 "rave" might be used for MESHUGGA` but not for MITNABBE'.

HH: I can see your reasoning. The HCSB translated with "rave" at 1 Sam 18:10. I was not involved with that book and did not make any final decisions of any sort on the translation. NET Bible uses "prophesying" at 1 Sam 18:10. The NLT has "rave." NIV has "prophesying." Amplified has "raved" and adds "madly" in brackets. ESV has "raved." CEV has "began acting like a crazy man." NRSV has "raved."

HH: David played the lyre to soothe the mental disturbance of the king, which amounted to mental illness:

KJV: 1Sam. 16:15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.
1Sam. 16:16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.

NIV: 1Sam. 16:14 ¶ Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him.
1Sam. 16:15 ¶ Saul's attendants said to him, "See, an evil spirit from God is tormenting you.
1Sam. 16:16 Let our lord command his servants here to search for someone who can play the harp. He will play when the evil spirit from God comes upon you, and you will feel better."

HH: I think that "rave" can used today of people claiming divine speech, if they manifest wildness or mental illness. So I don't find "rave" bad at 1 Sam 18:10, and "prophesy" strikes me as a bit flat or odd. The reader knows that Saul has been possessed or harassed by an evil spirit. You might say that the whole situation was odd.

Yours,
Harold Holmyard




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