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  • From: "Harold R. Holmyard III" <hholmyard AT ont.com>
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] 'Prophesying' 1 Samuel 18:10
  • Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 22:42:17 -0500

Dear Brian,

Another question from 1 Samuel.
In verse 10 of chapter 18, the Hebrew says that Saul was 'prophesying' in his house. What exactly does this means in this situation?

We have already been told in 1 Samuel 16:14 that the Spirit of God had already left Saul, and yet the Spirit of God is generally considered to be a necessary pre-requisite for a prophet in the Hebrew scriptures.

Most of the more literal translations of this passage in English use the word 'prophesying', but three of the more 'dynamic' translations [Good News, New Living & Contemporary English] use a phrase like 'raving like a madman'. Is there good justification for this, or is it a case of trying to force an acceptable translation based on theological presuppositions that someone without the Spirit of God couldn't prophesy?

HH: This is the verb NB) in the Hithpael. Here below are the places where it occurs. You can look at them yourself. The Dictionary of Classical Hebrew gives "rave" as the meaning for the verb at 1 Sam 18:10. Note the possible association of the verb with madness:

Jer. 29:26 'The LORD has appointed you priest in place of Jehoiada to be in charge of the house of the LORD; you should put any madman who acts like a prophet into the stocks and neck-irons.

HH: The Hebrew in Jer 29:26 for "madman who acts like a prophet" is two participles linked by the waw conjunction. There is some legitimate prophecy in the list below, but there is also a good deal of false prophecy, which sometimes involves raving type activities:

1Kings 18:29 Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention.

HH: There are also a considerable number of one-time prophetic activities that resemble being possessed more than normal prophecy. Since NB) in the Qal is the normal word for prophesy, the Hithpael may carry some special flavor to it. "The Hithpael may denote esteeming or presenting oneself in a state, sometimes without regard to the question of truthfulness" (Waltke and O'Connor, _Biblical Hebrew Syntax_, 26.2f). So somebody may pretend to be something. He may present himself as something either truthfully or not truthfully.

Yours,
Harold Holmyard


Num. 11:25 Then the LORD came down in the cloud and spoke with him, and he took of the Spirit that was on him and put the Spirit on the seventy elders. When the Spirit rested on them, they prophesied, but they did not do so again.
Num. 11:26 ¶ However, two men, whose names were Eldad and Medad, had remained in the camp. They were listed among the elders, but did not go out to the Tent. Yet the Spirit also rested on them, and they prophesied in the camp.
Num. 11:27 A young man ran and told Moses, "Eldad and Medad are prophesying in the camp."
1Sam. 10:5 ¶ "After that you will go to Gibeah of God, where there is a Philistine outpost. As you approach the town, you will meet a procession of prophets coming down from the high place with lyres, tambourines, flutes and harps being played before them, and they will be prophesying.
1Sam. 10:6 The Spirit of the LORD will come upon you in power, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person.
1Sam. 10:10 When they arrived at Gibeah, a procession of prophets met him; the Spirit of God came upon him in power, and he joined in their prophesying.
1Sam. 10:13 After Saul stopped prophesying, he went to the high place.
1Sam. 18:10 ¶ The next day an evil spirit from God came forcefully upon Saul. He was prophesying in his house, while David was playing the harp, as he usually did. Saul had a spear in his hand
1Sam. 19:20 so he sent men to capture him. But when they saw a group of prophets prophesying, with Samuel standing there as their leader, the Spirit of God came upon Saul's men and they also prophesied.
1Sam. 19:21 Saul was told about it, and he sent more men, and they prophesied too. Saul sent men a third time, and they also prophesied.
1Sam. 19:23 ¶ So Saul went to Naioth at Ramah. But the Spirit of God came even upon him, and he walked along prophesying until he came to Naioth.
1Sam. 19:24 He stripped off his robes and also prophesied in Samuel's presence. He lay that way all that day and night. This is why people say, "Is Saul also among the prophets?"
1Kings 18:29 Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention.
1Kings 22:8 ¶ The king of Israel answered Jehoshaphat, "There is still one man through whom we can inquire of the LORD, but I hate him because he never prophesies anything good about me, but always bad. He is Micaiah son of Imlah." ¶ "The king should not say that," Jehoshaphat replied.
1Kings 22:10 ¶ Dressed in their royal robes, the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat king of Judah were sitting on their thrones at the threshing floor by the entrance of the gate of Samaria, with all the prophets prophesying before them.
1Kings 22:18 ¶ The king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, "Didn't I tell you that he never prophesies anything good about me, but only bad?"
Jer. 14:14 ¶ Then the LORD said to me, "The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds.
Jer. 23:13 "Among the prophets of Samaria I saw this repulsive thing: They prophesied by Baal and led my people Israel astray.
Jer. 26:20 ¶ (Now Uriah son of Shemaiah from Kiriath Jearim was another man who prophesied in the name of the LORD; he prophesied the same things against this city and this land as Jeremiah did.
Jer. 29:26 'The LORD has appointed you priest in place of Jehoiada to be in charge of the house of the LORD; you should put any madman who acts like a prophet into the stocks and neck-irons.
Jer. 29:27 So why have you not reprimanded Jeremiah from Anathoth, who poses as a prophet among you?
Ezek. 13:17 ¶ "Now, son of man, set your face against the daughters of your people who prophesy out of their own imagination. Prophesy against them
Ezek. 37:10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath entered them; they came to life and stood up on their feet - a vast army.
2Chr. 18:7 ¶ The king of Israel answered Jehoshaphat, "There is still one man through whom we can inquire of the LORD, but I hate him because he never prophesies anything good about me, but always bad. He is Micaiah son of Imlah." ¶ "The king should not say that," Jehoshaphat replied.
2Chr. 18:9 ¶ Dressed in their royal robes, the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat king of Judah were sitting on their thrones at the threshing floor by the entrance to the gate of Samaria, with all the prophets prophesying before them.
2Chr. 18:17 ¶ The king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, "Didn't I tell you that he never prophesies anything good about me, but only bad?"
2Chr. 20:37 Eliezer son of Dodavahu of Mareshah prophesied against Jehoshaphat, saying, "Because you have made an alliance with Ahaziah, the LORD will destroy what you have made." The ships were wrecked and were not able to set sail to trade.
From Banyai AT t-online.de Mon Jul 5 02:12:43 2004
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Subject: [b-hebrew] Re: Benjamin
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To say it simply:

there is not the same statistical likelyhood, that two people called Samuel
(there may have existed during the past millenia several millions of this
name) or two tribes called Benjamin (maybe in the extreme case 3-4) could be
the same, judged on nothing else as on the name.

That a Benjamin and a Banu-Yamina are one and the same is the probability at
about 50%, or 33%. That two Samuels are the same, the probability is rather
in the direction of 0.

Best regards,

Bányai Michael
Stuttgart




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