Biblical Hebrew Forum

[David P Donnelly <davedonnelly1 AT juno.com>]

Jason Hare says:

>>>
If Dave were interested in studying Hebrew, 
he would study Hebrew. 

However, he has already demonstrated 

(by referencing Strong and by his complete lack of
concern for what ANYONE has said to him about this issue) 

that he is not interested in studying Hebrew 
except to further his understanding of this one word.
>>>

Dave says:

I am definitely primarily interested in studying the variants of YHWH.

I was not aware that I was displaying a:
"complete lack of concern for what ANYONE has said to him about this
issue"

I invite criticism on this issue.
I hope the line is not too long.

In my own mind,
I have been trying to abide by the rules of Respectful Discourse on this
b-Hebrew discussion boards.
Some members have advised me privately of b-Hebrew protocol.
The following are b-Hebrew guidelines I am aware of:
>>>
Debate that forces particular faith or doctrinal perspectives onto a
reading of the text
is not appropriate subject matter for this forum. 
Proselytizing
("seeking to convert someone to a certain religious faith") 
is also not appropriate. 
Naturally, each of us will share our own understanding 
from our own perspective, 
but this should not be done 
with the goal of changing other participants. 
>>>
Dave Donnelly

Jason Hare jason at hareplay.com 
Sat Sep 27 15:13:03 EDT 2003 
> Dave says:
>
> In my particulat situation,
> I am trying to understand the "it is written" form of God's Hebrew
name,
> as it is preserved in the Ben Chayyim Hebrew text.
>
> I realize that  Masoretic texts disagree with other Masoretic texts,
> but the Old Testament of the English Bible that I use,
> [e.g. the KJV]
> is translated from the Ben Chayyim Hebrew text.

Well, I guess I'll just throw out a couple more comments. I didn't notice
before (I guess I'm just not used to dealing with the English side of
this)
that when Dave said that he was trying to "understand the 'it is written'
form of God's Hebrew name," he was saying that he was trying to grasp the
meaning of the KTYB, the [k'tiv] of the text. Sometimes these things just
slip by you. LOL

Secondly, I was unaware that the KJV was translated from the Ben Chayyim
text. Is that significantly different from our MT as presented in the
Stone
Chumash or in BHS? I have both of them (and several others), so I guess
I'm
just wondering if Ben Chayyim is something that I would have to get as a
separate representation of the textual tradition.

Beyond that, does anyone else pull from this excerpt above that he is
more
interested with the Tetragrammaton than with anything else to do with
Hebrew
study? What about the rest of the text? And what is up with the KJV
reference?

I'm just a bit concerned. I have always looked up to B-Hebrew's level of
intensity in study. Since I signed on (over three years ago) I have
always
considered the opinions of these valued scholars to be of high worth...
especially when a discussion is carried to the end and the pieces have
come
down. Generally, great answers can be found within the settled findings.
It
just bothers me when someone with an obvious theological bend is trying
to
divert the list from its great height and pull us down so that we argue
on a
child's level over things that have been settled for centuries.

This is one of those issues. Why is this brought up over-and-over? Can we
not just refer him to the archives and move on? We should not have to
explain this ten times in one thread (as has happened this time)! If Dave
were interested in studying Hebrew, he would study Hebrew. However, he
has
already demonstrated (by referencing Strong and by his complete lack of
concern for what ANYONE has said to him about this issue) that he is not
interested in studying Hebrew except to further his understanding of this
one word. And surely his motivations behind that are akin to any other
person who wants to sound "studied" and "authoritative" on a subject of
which he/she is completely ignorant.

I have ranted, and surely placed myself in disrepute with some on the
list.
I think I will take a few days off.

I just have to say that my annoyance is out of extreme love for the
scholarly drive of this list and for the great participants that we have.
So
many of you encourage me daily without even knowing it. I'm sorry to be
so
contrary. I just think you should be aware that you are being had (which
many of you probably already see).

L'shanah tovah,
Jason Hare
>From dwashbur AT nyx.net  Sat Sep 27 16:33:15 2003
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From: Dave Washburn <dwashbur AT nyx.net>
To: "B-Hebrew" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Variants of YHWH in the BHS Text
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:33:13 -0600
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On Saturday 27 September 2003 12:48, Jason Hare wrote:
> > Mark Eddy says:
> >
> >
> > So the "it is written" form of God's Hebrew name has no  vowels.
> >
> >
> > Dave says:
> >
> > Concerning this "it is written" form of God's name that has no vowels=
,
> >
> > God says in the last sentence of Exodus 3:15:
> > : this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generati=
ons.
> >
> > It would seem that you possibly  believe that this 4-letter Hebrew na=
me
> > without vowels
> > is God's name forever.
> >
> > Do you believe that a time will come,
> > when men and women will once again know how
> > to pronounce this 4-letter Hebrew name without vowels,
> > and men and women will pray to God using this name?
> > [and pronouncing this name as God pronounced it to Moses]
> >
> > Dave Donnelly
>
> All I have to say is that I was not /off/ in my assumption that Dave wa=
s
> trying to corner us with Sacred Name propaganda. So, I will sit back do=
wn
> now. Point is made.

Agreed.  I stand corrected.

--=20
Dave Washburn
http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
"God does a lot of things in the Psalms
that He can't get away with in systematic theology."