Biblical Hebrew Forum

[David P Donnelly <davedonnelly1 AT juno.com>]

Jack says:

>>>
Since Genesis was almost certainly written AFTER 900 BCE, 
what is  the problem?
>>>

Dave says:

Possibly there is no problem, 
if the Book of Genesis was written after 900 BCE.

Is it your understanding that Yod and He and Waw/Vav 
were all being used as vowel letters in the Book of Genesis?

And if your answer is "yes"
it seems at least possible that Josephus was correct,
that YHWH was composed of 4 vowels,
and not 4 consonants.

e.g. it is possible that the 3 Hebrew vowel-letters,
[Yod/once and He/twice and Waw/Vav/once]
that are found in the Tetragrammaton,
were being used strictly as vowels.

Dave Donnelly 


On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:15:51 -0500 "Jack Kilmon" <jkilmon AT historian.net>
writes:
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David P Donnelly" <davedonnelly1 AT juno.com>
> To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 8:23 AM
> Subject: [b-hebrew] YHWH: Consonants or Vowels?
> 
> 
> > Are the 4 Hebrew letters of the Tetragrammaton consonants or 
> vowels?
> >
> > First-century priest and historian Falvius Josephus writes about 
> the
> > sacred Name
> > that was engraved on the headpiece of the high priest:
> > >>>
> > A mitre also of fine linen encompassed his head,
> > which was tied by a blue riband,
> > about which there was another golden crown,
> > in which was engraven the sacred name [of God];
> > it consists of four vowels.
> > >>>
> > Wars of the Jews, Book 5, chapter 5
> >
> > It is well known that the Yod and the He and the Waw/Vav
> > are all used as vowel-letters in the un-pointed Hebrew Text.
> >
> > However,
> > many sources say that vowel-letters were not used until about 
> 1000
> > B.C.-900 B.C.
> > Is their any solid evidence
> > that the Yod and the He and the Waw/Vav were not being used as 
> vowel
> > letters
> > when Genesis 2:4 was first written?
> 
> Since Genesis was almost certainly written AFTER 900 BCE, what is 
> the
> problem?
> 
> Jack
> 
> 
> 
>From davedonnelly1 AT juno.com  Sat Sep 13 18:45:07 2003
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Subject: Re: [b-Hebrew] Elohiym has a Hireq Yod
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Doris says:
>>>
While not being an expert on this issue 
I would like to add to the discussion that,
according to the Documentary Hypothesis,  
Gen 1:1 is part of the P texts, 
hence composed much later than 1000 BCE. 

Also, pre-exilic texts would have been written in paleo-Hebrew script 
which may have used different spelling. 

Has anyone considered the Samaritan Pentateuch for comparison?
>>>

Dave says:
I found a possible different time line for the writing of the Book of
Genesis,
at the link below:
http://www.yale.edu/yup/pdf/084404front.pdf
The scholarly consensus is that the Hebrew Bible incorporates works
composed in approximately a thousand-year time period from the twelfth to
the second pre-Christian centuries. That time period includes the years
586-538 BCE, during which a significant segment of the Judean population
was exiled to Babylonia, and was influenced by Aramaic, the lingua franca
of the ancient Near East at that time. It is thus customary to
distinguish between pre-exilic Hebrew, which precedes the exile of 586,
and postexilic Hebrew, which follows the return to Zion in 538. The
middle period is represented by exilic Hebrew, which is a transition
between these two dialects. The influence of Aramaic was far reaching,
>>>Dave says:If Hebrew scholars claim that vowel-letters were not used
before 1000 BCE to 900 BCE,and if Hebrew scholars place the date of the
writing of Genesis 1earlier than 1000 BCE, that would seem to indicate
that no vowel-letters are found in Genesis 1.However the vowel-letters
Yod and He and Waw/Vav seem to be found in the un-pointed Hebrew Book of
Genesis as it is presently preserved.I was trying to determine if the
vowel letters Yod and He and Waw/Vav [which are found in Genesis 1 of the
unpointed Hebrew text as it is presently preserved]were actually in the
original text of Genesis 1.Dave Donnelly 
>From Bearpecs AT aol.com  Sat Sep 13 20:20:11 2003
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] YHWH: Consonants or Vowels?
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Except that no word in any Semitic language consists only of vowels.  In 
Greek, however, which does have words consisting only of vowels, I would 
expect 
these Hebrew consonants to be transcribed with vowels. 

The short answer is: NO, it is NOT possible that all the letters in the 
ineffable name were used strictly as vowels.


In a message dated 9/13/2003 5:55:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
davedonnelly1 AT juno.com writes:
. it is possible that the 3 Hebrew vowel-letters,
[Yod/once and He/twice and Waw/Vav/once]
that are found in the Tetragrammaton,
were being used strictly as vowels.