Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Uri Hurwitz <uhurwitz AT yahoo.com>]

Good point, Trevor. Another example, among quite a few, where a verb occurs 
in a stem (binyan) that no longer serves its original meaning is "dibber" -- 
"he spoke", nothing intensive here.    
 
Uri 

Trevor Peterson <06peterson AT cua.edu> wrote:
Paul wrote:

> I searched through GRAMCORD and found almost all the 
> 'amen (believe) are in Hifil.

The verb meaning "believe" is the Hifil of alef-mem-nun. The Qal means
"support."

> My understanding of Hifil 
> translation usually involve two subjects: SUBJ2 causes SUBJ1 
> to do/be (verb).

First, I would abandon this terminology. The grammatical subject of a
clause and the semantic role of actor are two different things. For
instance, in "He was hit by the ball," "He" is the subject, but the ball
is doing the action. What you seem to be thinking of is not two subjects
but two actors--one that does the action of causing, the other the
action being caused. But even this idea has significant problems. At
best, the idea that Hifil means causing something to do something is a
clue, or a rule of thumb. But you will find plenty of instances where
this doesn't work very well. Indeed, the very notion requires that the
hifil always follow on a corresponding Qal from the same root, which
cannot be the case. For several roots, there is no attested Qal to work
with.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, you might benefit from detaching
yourself from the whole idea of generalizing stem semantics. Instead,
think of each verb--root X in stem Y--as its own word (which it is). Not
that we can't gain anything from generalizing the force of stem forms,
but sometimes it gets in the way of understanding what a word means.
Where possible, look at the contexts where a given root appears in a
given stem, and discern the meaning for that specific word accordingly.
When we start working from the supposed force of a stem, we're drifting
toward derivational morphology, and the relationships become rather
fluid.

> Does this imply the translation of Genesis 
> 15:6 could be: "God (or LORD) causes he (Abram) to believe in 
> the LORD and He reckoned it to him as righteousness."? or 
> "believe" is an exception in Hifil which does not need two 
> subjects but one such as reflexive? Can anyone help me with 
> this and point me to the right reference? Thank you very much.

If the form meaning "believe" is always hifil, why try to adjust that
meaning here? This root is not so unusual in this regard. Your best
track was when you looked at the various occurrences in Gramcord. I
would advise that you do this regularly, but make sure that you pay
attention to the distinct stem forms. Roots are not words--to get the
verb, you need both root and stem. Take a look at one of the reference
grammars--Waltke & O'Connor, Jouon & Muraoka, probably even Gesenius.
Don't look at the general discussion of stem forms--look at the
categories of usage for hifil. Look at the range of meanings that it can
have.

Trevor Peterson
CUA/Semitics

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Subject: [b-hebrew] Question for all - Lev. 17:13
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"Any Israelite or any alien living among you who hunts any animal or bird 
that may be eaten must _drain out the blood and cover it with earth_." (NIV)
 
What concept do you feel the underscored words would signal in the mind of an 
ancient Israelite, and why do you feel that way?
 
Regards,
 
Mark Davis.


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Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 21:00:11 -0700
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Question for all - Lev. 17:13
From: CS Bartholomew <jacksonpollock AT earthlink.net>
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On 8/24/03 5:57 PM, "Hal Goodnight" <jwdefender17 AT yahoo.com> wrote:

> "Any Israelite or any alien living among you who hunts any animal or bird 
> that
> may be eaten must _drain out the blood and cover it with earth_." (NIV)
> 
> What concept do you feel the underscored words would signal in the mind of 
> an
> ancient Israelite, and why do you feel that way?
> 

Lev. 17:13 w)y# )y# mbny y#r)l wmN hgr hgr btwkM )#r ycwd cyd xyh )w (wP )#r
y)kl w#pK )t dmw wkshw b(pr
Lev. 17:14 ky np# kl b#r dmw bnp#w hw) w)mr lbny y#r)l dM kl b#r l) t)klw ky
np# kl b#r dmw hw) kl )klyw ykrt

The following verse explains it; no?
If not then what are you driving at?

The LXX, Syriac, and Vulgate omit bnp#w in Lev. 17:14. Looks like the
removal of a redundant constituent by the LXX followed by the Syriac and
Vulgate. Jerome might take exception to this :-)

What do you Hebrew people think? Is bnp#w redundant here?



greetings,
Clay Bartholomew