Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Robert Rezetko" <rezetko AT yahoo.com>]

Søren Holst wrote:

> What Yigal says above is obviously true, but presupposes that we actually
> know how to distinguish between "late" and "early" language.

> There's no doubt that the language of Ezra, Nehemiah and Chronicles is
> slightly but consistently different from that of Genesis-Kings. Whether this
> difference is necessarily a difference of time of composition remains
> disputed. The two "sorts" of Hebrew might have been in use at the same time.
> If (and only IF) this was the case, not only could a text in "late" language
> have been authored in an "early" period as indicated by Yigal, but the
> contrary is also possible: A text written in the Hebrew of Genesis-Kings
> could have been authored late. The only way to demonstrate that this is
> actually possible, would be to show that a text who talks about events in
> the Persian period is actually written in the same sort of Hebrew as
> Genesis-Kings. Precisely this, Danish scholar Martin Ehrensvärd has done in
> his recently defended ph.d. thesis (analyzing texts like Haggai, Malachi and
> Zecharaiah and finding no more features of "late" Biblical Hebrew in them
> than in, say, the Books of Samuel). The relevant parts of the dissertation
> are due out as an article in a volume edited by Ian Young (sorry, I can't
> find the title).

The book is:

 

Ian Young (ed). Biblical Hebrew: Chronology and Typology. JSOTSup. Sheffield, 
2003 (July).

 

In Part II, 'Challenges to the Chronological Model', I have contributed an 
essay entitled 'Dating Biblical Hebrew: Evidence from Samuel-Kings and 
Chronicles'.

 

Robert Rezetko
>From jhronline AT yahoo.com  Fri Feb 28 12:45:55 2003
Return-Path: <jhronline AT yahoo.com>
Delivered-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Received: from web80302.mail.yahoo.com (web80302.mail.yahoo.com
        [66.218.79.18])
        by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 910D420006
        for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>;
        Fri, 28 Feb 2003 12:45:55 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <20030228174717.41639.qmail AT web80302.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [24.117.17.56] by web80302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
        Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:47:17 PST
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:47:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Jason Hare <jhronline AT yahoo.com>
To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
In-Reply-To: <20030228170040.17B0420017 AT happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: [b-hebrew] )YYM - mythological/aggadic usages
X-BeenThere: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
List-Id: A forum on the Hebrew Bible, its language and interpretation
        <b-hebrew.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew>
List-Post: <mailto:b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 17:45:56 -0000

I'm looking for information on the word )YYM (iyyim).
Could someone, and I thank you much, give me some info
on the uses of this word in aggadic or mythological
passages, not as "borderlands" or "coasts," but in
regard to the mythological creatures?

Thanks,
Jason Hare

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
>From goranson AT duke.edu  Sat Mar  1 06:37:52 2003
Return-Path: <goranson AT duke.edu>
Delivered-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Received: from heinlein.acpub.duke.edu (heinlein.acpub.duke.edu [152.3.233.9])
        by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E902220046
        for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>;
        Sat,  1 Mar 2003 06:37:51 -0500 (EST)
Received: from asaro.acpub.duke.edu (asaro.acpub.duke.edu [152.3.232.64])
        ESMTP id h21Bbae23164 for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>;
        Sat, 1 Mar 2003 06:37:36 -0500 (EST)
From: goranson AT duke.edu
Received: (from nobody@localhost)
        by asaro.acpub.duke.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA00024
        for b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org; Sat, 1 Mar 2003 06:37:36 -0500 (EST)
To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: RE: [b-hebrew] DSS Tense Aspect Mood
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 06:37:36 -0500
Message-ID: <1046518656.3e609b80e0aa8 AT asaro.acpub.duke.edu>
X-Mailer: Duke Web Mail v1.1.4 20-February-2002
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Originating-IP: 152.16.48.3
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter, Duke University (http://amavis.org/)
X-BeenThere: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
List-Id: A forum on the Hebrew Bible, its language and interpretation
        <b-hebrew.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew>
List-Post: <mailto:b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 11:37:52 -0000

Thanks for your reply, Ken.

Though I suppose we could agree that sources should be used carefully,
that Josephus mentions fate, among other things, is no big problem. My
JJS article on his sources (Posidonius via Strabo, etc.), not cited in
yours, deals with this; see also, e.g., R. Argall in the George
Nickelsburg FS, if interested. Essenes do have predestination
interests as Qumran confirms; Pharisees, or at any rate Rabbis, with
all is forseen yet freewill is given, match the middle range;
Sadducees, the smallest, with Torah limits fit freewill OK, for
starters. Of course Josephus selects and colors--but all sources do;
and we know his biases better than many others. I could go on about
this, but it's maybe not b-hebrew stuff, so won't, unless you wish, or
offlist.

A few more very preliminary comments on your interesting proposal. On
p. 6 of 10 you mention a "certain" form, "certain" meaning. I guess
you mean certain as in particular, specified, given. But the other
meaning--sure, secure--came up in my mind as a question. In other
words, how can you be certain of a meaning (TAM=tense, aspect, mood?
if so, perhaps spell out). In other words, your project is to figure
out how verbs are used and how to understand them. How then can you
determine this, then quantify, then analyse, in order to be certain of
a meaning (and/or the absolute or relative time) you already decided
in the previous step? In other other words, in cases where a sentence
can arguably be read two ways, how do you decide before entering in
your database? Or will you have as part of your calculus, the
certainty, relatively, of your various imputs? Or leave out or process
separate iffy cases? Maybe I missed something.
Typos: Riechenbach-->Reichenbach
Puech pub. Llecoffre-->Lecoffre
Zevit no hyphen

best,
Stephen Goranson