Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Dr. Joe Sprinkle" <jsprinkl AT tfc.edu>]

Is there still a message board format for the product of these mailings?

I was unable to locate the web address.

JMS

----- Original Message -----
From: <b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org>
To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 12:00 PM
Subject: b-hebrew Digest, Vol 1, Issue 21


> Send b-hebrew mailing list submissions to
> b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman-2.1/listinfo/b-hebrew
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> b-hebrew-owner AT lists.ibiblio.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of b-hebrew digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Computerized Torah Library (Jonathan D. Safren)
>    2. Computerized Torah Library (Jonathan D. Safren)
>    3. Re: Computerized Torah Library
>    4. Deut 32:5 THE LAST WORD (watts-westmaas)
>    5. Re: Deut 32:5 THE LAST WORD (Shai Heijmans)
>    6. RE: Re: Emendations, was: Deut 32:5 SHiCHeT (Trevor Peterson)
>    7. whatever happened.... (Jim West)
>    8. Re: whatever happened.... (B. M. Rocine)
>    9. Re: Deut 32:5 THE LAST WORD (B. M. Rocine)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 20:25:51 +0200
> From: "Jonathan D. Safren" <yonsaf AT beitberl.ac.il>
> To: "Biblical Hebrew" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>,
> "First Century Judaism Discussion Forum" <ioudaios-l AT Lehigh.EDU>,
> "H-NET Jewish Studies List" <H-JUDAIC AT h-net.msu.edu>
> Subject: [b-hebrew] Computerized Torah Library
> Message-ID: <003301c2c7c3$daf40310$0101c80a@safrengvwdlhdr>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 1
>
> I own a 1996-vintage copy of the Computerized Torah Library (ST"aM) CD. It
> worked fine on Windows 95 and Windows 98, but on Windows XP I get an
> "Application Error" notice: "Call to Undefined Dynalink".
> Does anyone have a solution for this problem?
> Sincerely,
> Jonathan D. Safren, Editor
> Mo'ed - Researches in Judaic Studies
> Center for Jewish Culture
> Beit Berl College
> Beit Berl Post Office
> 44905 Israel
> Tel. 972-9-7476396
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 20:23:47 +0200
> From: "Jonathan D. Safren" <yon_saf AT bezeqint.net>
> Cc: Biblical Hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Cc: First Century Judaism Discussion Forum <ioudaios-l AT Lehigh.EDU>
> Subject: [b-hebrew] Computerized Torah Library
> Message-ID: <001f01c2c7c3$90d14860$0101c80a@safrengvwdlhdr>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 2
>
> I own a 1996-vintage copy of the Computerized Torah Library (ST"aM) CD. It
> worked fine on Windows 95 and Windows 98, but on Windows XP I get an
> "Application Error" notice: "Call to Undefined Dynalink".
> Does anyone have a solution for this problem?
> Sincerely,
> Jonathan D. Safren, Editor
> Mo'ed - Researches in Judaic Studies
> Center for Jewish Culture
> Beit Berl College
> Beit Berl Post Office
> 44905 Israel
> Tel. 972-9-7476396
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:57:22 EST
> From: Polycarp66 AT aol.com
> To: yonsaf AT beitberl.ac.il, b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Computerized Torah Library
> Message-ID: <163.1af13853.2b697e12 AT aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 3
>
> In a message dated 1/29/2003 1:26:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> yonsaf AT beitberl.ac.il writes:
>
> > I own a 1996-vintage copy of the Computerized Torah Library (ST"aM) CD.
It
> > worked fine on Windows 95 and Windows 98, but on Windows XP I get an
> > "Application Error" notice: "Call to Undefined Dynalink".
> > Does anyone have a solution for this problem?
> >
>
> I don't have your CTL, but your reference to Dynalink reminded me of the
> dynamic link library.  I found this in the Microsoft knowledge base.
>
> <A
HREF="http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;101238";>http:/
/support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;101238</A>
>
> gfsomsel
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 21:16:04 +0100
> From: "watts-westmaas" <watts-westmaas AT zonnet.nl>
> To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: [b-hebrew] Deut 32:5 THE LAST WORD
> Message-ID: <FAEIIKJEKGHNGLFNMDBCKEFDCAAA.watts-westmaas AT zonnet.nl>
> In-Reply-To: <20030129170021.277D320131 AT happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 4
>
> Dear proffessors and people, Phew what a lot of reading!!!!
>
> BUT I have an idea and would appreciate everyone's contribution.  Can each
> person submit their OWN translation of DEUT 32:5 - with a brief,
additional
> note saying why they interpret it this way, and I won't say anymore.
Thanks.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 23:38:45 +0200
> From: "Shai Heijmans" <shaih AT post.tau.ac.il>
> To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Deut 32:5 THE LAST WORD
> Message-ID: <000801c2c7de$cdbd5640$615a4284@rutiheij>
> References: <FAEIIKJEKGHNGLFNMDBCKEFDCAAA.watts-westmaas AT zonnet.nl>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 5
>
> Chris -
> I'm on! Just give me a couple of days...
> Shai
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "watts-westmaas" <watts-westmaas AT zonnet.nl>
> To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:16 PM
> Subject: [b-hebrew] Deut 32:5 THE LAST WORD
>
>
> > Dear proffessors and people, Phew what a lot of reading!!!!
> >
> > BUT I have an idea and would appreciate everyone's contribution.  Can
each
> > person submit their OWN translation of DEUT 32:5 - with a brief,
> additional
> > note saying why they interpret it this way, and I won't say anymore.
> Thanks.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > b-hebrew mailing list
> > b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:40:45 -0500
> From: Trevor Peterson <06PETERSON AT cua.edu>
> To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: RE: [b-hebrew] Re: Emendations, was: Deut 32:5 SHiCHeT
> Message-ID: <3E388250 AT 136.242.14.28>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 6
>
> Shai wrote:
> >
> > I have the feeling that you decide whether a text is corrupt
> > based on your u
> > nderstanding of it. If so, this is methodologically wrong.
>
> On whose understanding should I decide? :-)
>
> > A text can be
> > corrupt but perfectly understandable, and a text can be totally
> > ununderstandable, but genuine.
>
> True. I hope I haven't given the indication that I disagree with this
idea.
>
> > You must rely firstly on *evidence* (just like in court), otherwise -
your
> > opinion (or mine) isn't worth more than my 5-years-old brother's
guesses.
>
> I suppose the effect of that remark depends on how well your 5-year-old
> brother knows BH. But I'm not disagreeing with the need for evidence.
Perhaps,
> however, we're not following the same rules for admitting evidence.
> >
> > For example:
> > The idea that the text in Dt. 32:5 is corrupt is based on the *facts*
that
> > many good and old witnesses display different versions: the
> > samaritan hebrew
> > version, some  aramaic translations and the LXX (See BHS). But when
there
> > are less witnesses for another version, the case for corruption weakens
(I
> > remind you our little discussion about Hosea 13:14).
>
> But just having other readings doesn't necessarily show a text to be
corrupt.
> Those other versions may be struggling to explain what is a naturally
awkward
> passage. I haven't been trying to give a full explanation of how I think
> textual criticism ought to work. I was simply trying to make a very
specific
> methodological point, that there's no use trying to show how a passage
makes
> sense as it stands, when you've already judged it to be corrupt. Of
course,
> variant readings need to be examined. But their mere existence doesn't
prove
> that a text is corrupt any more than their absence proves that the text is
> intact. In addition to variants, especially with something like the Hebrew
> Bible, where none of our witnesses are as early or as useful (i.e., in
Hebrew,
> rather than some other language that introduces a new set of problems) as
we
> might like, we have to work with critical models. Variant readings do
nothing
> for me, if I don't have a definable method of evaluating them. But why
admit
> only one type of evidence? By this standard, I should go back and re-read
> Davies's book by trying to make sense of everything it says exactly as it
says
> it. I don't have a variant copy to compare, and I don't know how willingly
he
> would give me a copy of the original manuscript (which probably had all
the
> same mistakes anyway). But somehow I don't think that ever stops any of us
> from doing our own textual criticism on everything we read (or hear).
> >
> > Understanding relies on grammar and lexicon; but both grammar and
lexicon
> > were made based on understanding! It's a vecious circle. You must have
an
> > "archimedian point", an outside testimony, to decide whether a text is
> > corrupt, you cannot use intterpretation - at least not if you want your
> > articles published in good periodicles :)
>
> Which periodicals do you read? And who are the second-rate scholars that
edit
> BHS? This is not a new or unusual method by any means, but for all that, I
> would hope that by now we've grown in our realization that evidence is
always
> filtered through a model. I hope we're not too far off-topic for B-Hebrew,
> BTW. I really think these issues are particularly relevant for TC in the
> Hebrew Bible especially, but I don't know that we should go on discussing
them
> at length. This started with a response to a rather specific textual issue
> that we seem to have finished discussing.
>
> Trevor Peterson
> CUA/Semitics
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:40:28 -0500
> From: Jim West <jwest AT highland.net>
> To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: [b-hebrew] whatever happened....
> Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20030129224028.00694498 AT highland.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Precedence: list
> Message: 7
>
> whatever happened to george athas' tel dan page?
>
> jim
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Jim West, ThD
>
> Biblical Studies Resources
> http://web.infoave.net/~jwest
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:47:35 -0500
> From: "B. M. Rocine" <brocine AT twcny.rr.com>
> To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] whatever happened....
> Message-ID: <005f01c2c7e8$6a78ffd0$0302a8c0@brocine>
> References: <1.5.4.32.20030129224028.00694498 AT highland.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 8
>
> He's on vacation right now.  Ask again in a couple of weeks.  Bryan
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim West" <jwest AT highland.net>
> To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 5:40 PM
> Subject: [b-hebrew] whatever happened....
>
>
> > whatever happened to george athas' tel dan page?
> >
> > jim
> >
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >
> > Jim West, ThD
> >
> > Biblical Studies Resources
> > http://web.infoave.net/~jwest
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > b-hebrew mailing list
> > b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 23:59:30 -0500
> From: "B. M. Rocine" <brocine AT twcny.rr.com>
> To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Deut 32:5 THE LAST WORD
> Message-ID: <007301c2c81c$5f949e10$0302a8c0@brocine>
> References: <FAEIIKJEKGHNGLFNMDBCKEFDCAAA.watts-westmaas AT zonnet.nl>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 9
>
> Hi Chris,  I am guessing that lots of folks have struggled with this one
> given the variety in the ancient manuscripts (see BHS).  I am suggesting
> that none of the other manuscripts seems authoritive because of the
variety
> of testimonies.  I am not spending a lot of time scrutinizing the text
> criticism.  Okay then, by the seat of my pants:
>
> The spoilers (of it) are not his sons.  Their blemish!  What a crooked and
> perverse generation!
>
> I'll go with a plural subject for $ixet, emending to $ixtu.  I think its
> justified by the larger context of the poem as well as the witness of the
> ancient manuscripts/translations.
>
> It might seem odd to treat the qatal verb as the subject of the sentence,
> but there are a handful of examples of just such a use of the qatal, most
> often (if not all) in poetry.
>
> I don't know quite what to do with lo (after $ixet), although it does
> sometimes mark the object of $XT.  It might here mark "it," that is, what
> was spoiled, but it seems unlikely.  They spoiled the good intentions and
> actions of YHVH as spelled out in other parts of the song.  I realize the
lo
> is questionable, and in a sense, my translation doesn't need they spoiled
> "it."  They spoiled something.  They were spoilers.
>
> I might put "with" before "their blemish" as in "those who were spoilers
> with their blemish are not his sons."  I think the sense is that their
> blemish was the spoiling feature.  But I like the way the phrasing of my
> translation echoes the phrasing of the H.
>
> I think the rest is pretty transparent.
>
> Shalom,
> Bryan
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "watts-westmaas" <watts-westmaas AT zonnet.nl>
> To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 3:16 PM
> Subject: [b-hebrew] Deut 32:5 THE LAST WORD
>
>
> > Dear proffessors and people, Phew what a lot of reading!!!!
> >
> > BUT I have an idea and would appreciate everyone's contribution.  Can
each
> > person submit their OWN translation of DEUT 32:5 - with a brief,
> additional
> > note saying why they interpret it this way, and I won't say anymore.
> Thanks.
> >
>
>
> B. M. Rocine
> Living Word Church
> 6101 Court St. Rd.
> Syracuse, NY 13206
>
> ph: 315.437.6744
> fx: 315.437.6766
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> b-hebrew mailing list
> b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
>
> End of b-hebrew Digest, Vol 1, Issue 21
> ***************************************