Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Alastair Haines <haines AT alastairs.com>]

Thank you Trevor,

I particularly liked the way you phrased your answer:
"... We don't know whether God is there or not.
Like Elijah, we've got to go outside and have a look around."

You've pushed me to another question.
In what sense is Hashem "*lo* b'ruach," "*lo* b'ra'ash," & "*lo* b'esh?"
How should I understand "lo b'..." in verses 11 and 12?

I suggested Hashem was showing his presence but answering with silence-
Is it the "dvar-Hashem" that is *not in* the great disturbances?
This reading seems fair, but was it the writer's intention?

About "shema" in verse 13 referring to "ruach," "ra'ash" and "esh",
is it so far back to go?
But I agree it is more natural for the referent to be "qol," even if a
"qol demama daqqa."

Thank you for drawing my attention to the use of "hinne."
This goes a good way to giving the "feel" for the text I wanted.

Shalom,
alastair
--
Alastair Haines 9386-0016
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Trevor Peterson wrote:

> >===== Original Message From Alastair Haines <haines AT alastairs.com> =====
> >"How many times does Hashem address Elijah?"
>
> I would say four times: v. 9,, v. 11, v. 13, vv. 15-18
>
> >Is verse 12 telling us that Hashem demonstrates his presence, but
> >answers with silence?
>
> I'm inclined to think that Hashem is not in v. 12 at all.
>
> >Elijah gives identical responses in verses 10 and 14 to identical
> >questions.
> >Is this repetition pre-empted by the repetition of the angel feeding
> >Elijah in verses 5 and 7?
>
> I'm not sure, but there could be some relationship.
>
> >There are strong allusions to the Torah that I want to make sense of-
> >40 days and nights reminds me of forty years in the wilderness.
>
> Makes sense, especially since he's in the same wilderness, apparently.
>
> >First I want to have a 'feel' for the narrative devices of this
> >particular text, though.
> >
> >Can anyone help me with this?
> >For example, similar devices in other narratives,
> >or oddities in the formulas used to introduce the words of Hashem in
> >this one?
>
> v. 9 vhinne dvar-Hashem elav, vayyomer lo: . . .
> v. 13 vhinne elav qol, vayyomer: . . .
>
> I'd say it's fairly unusual. It's certainly not a standard formula for
> introducing speech. vhinne is meant to grab our attention, often to put us 
> in
> the shoes of the character who's in view (in this case Elijah). We could
> imagine ourselves in v. 13, for instance, having just crept out of the cave
> after everything's gone quiet (too quiet), and then this voice just intrudes
> without warning. (hinne is used to introduce the angel, too.)
> >
> >In particular, what should I make of the highly structured sequence of
> >negations in verses 11 and 12.
> >Do they necessarily imply that Hashem *was* in the "qol demama daqqa?"
> >Could this be read exactly the other way?
> >All sound stopped and Hashem was still not there.
>
> I think you're probably on the right track here. The repitition lulls us 
> into
> expecting the negative, and when we don't find it at the end of the verse,
> something is suspended. (We're left hanging, you might say.) It's quiet. But
> we don't know whether God is there or not. Like Elijah, we've got to go
> outside and have a look around.
>
> >Could verse 13 refer to Elijah hearing the wind, earthquake and fire?
>
> I'm not sure why you'd want to take it back that far. There seems to be a
> clear sequence from one event to the next, until you reach the silence at 
> the
> end. Then the vayyiqtol form has him hearing and going out.
>
> Trevor Peterson
> CUA/Semitics
>
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