Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Peter Kirk"<peter_kirk AT sil.org>]

Ian, let's leave David Rohl out of the argument. I understand that 
some people react to that name like a bull reacts to a red rag. Be 
honest with yourself: would you have reacted so strongly if I had not 
mentioned David Rohl?

I accept that from the same data I have reached a different conclusion 
from Walter. I am not doing active research into this, but presumably 
Walter expects readers on this list to point out to him the weak 
points in his arguments, and that is what I am doing. My point is that 
my conclusion is a valid alternative to Walter's. If Pithom/Succoth 
was occupied at two different periods, then that is good evidence for 
the traditions about the place to originate in one of those two 
periods. Walter has arbitrarily chosen the later of those two periods, 
which fits better with the rest of his theory (though he has also 
argued for a Hyksos period Exodus). I am suggesting that the earlier 
of the two periods is an equally valid alternative, which is supported 
by the evidence from the site of Avaris/Ramses (Tell ed Daba) - though 
I don't have the data to find out if the sites were abandoned by 
Asiatics at the same time as in the Exodus narrative.

Meanwhile, what scholarly grounds do you have to oppose the theory 
that there is a "historical kernel" (as Walter puts it) behind Exodus 
narratives in a departure of Asiatics from Egypt at the end of the 
13th dynasty? You can say that it is an argument from silence, though 
the silence is not complete, but what else?

As for Walter's latest contribution in which he mentions a number of 
cities occupied in the Early Bronze and again in the Iron Age and 
mentioned in the Exodus accounts, let me be a bit tongue in cheek in 
suggesting that perhaps the "historical kernel" for the Exodus should 
be pushed back to the Early Bronze ;-) A more serious argument would 
be that the cities of Arad, Heshbon and Dibon were on different sites 
during the Conquest period - it is well known that cities do move 
around and take their names with them.

Peter Kirk


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Dating the Pentateuch, Pithom/Succoth
Author:  <mc2499 AT mclink.it> at Internet 
Date:    21/03/2000 16:20


At 11.08 20/03/00 -0500, Peter Kirk wrote:
>Thank you, Walter, for your excellent evidence in support of the 
>theory (proposed by David Rohl) dating the Exodus in the Middle 
>Bronze, at the end of the 13th dynasty. This was the period when the 
>site was occupied by Asiatics and then abandoned by them, exactly 
>according to the Exodus traditions.

Peter, you can't resurrect the dead (and Rohl is academically a dead issue) 
by citing selective information while ignoring the bulk of the source. The 
above is arbitrary manipulation for tendentious purposes. If you reread 
Walter's post you'll see that you have, by your preamble and selected cuts, 
misrepresented the original post to such an extent that you have his words 
saying the opposite of what his full text says.

If you accept Walter's data regarding Tell el-Maskhutah, then his 
conclusion is plain: "thus Pithom/Succoth entered the Pentateuchal 
narratives after 582 BCE." If anything, this argues for a very late exodus 
and against "the theory (proposed by David Rohl) dating the Exodus in the 
Middle Bronze, at the end of the 13th dynasty." That you can't get what you 
what you claim to from Walter's post is obvious from reading it. Your 
response therefore seems only to be a provocation, for I can't see even you 
believing what you have written.

Walter is up front with his reasoning regarding his search for dating 
indications of the biblical texts: he is actively doing research in that 
direction. What is the point of sending such a post as you did adding no 
new information (you have added no new information to any of these 
discussions about dating) and giving what seems to be a deliberately wrong 
impression of support for A Waste of Time?

You had promised to let the dead rest. Why get back to this voodoo in an 
attempt to make the zombie walk?

Ian



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