Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Rolf Furuli <furuli AT online.no>]

Dear Peter,



>
>PK: The problem is, how do you define "perfective" and "imperfective"?
>You have already rejected Comrie's definition and the definition based
>on Russian, and indicated I think that Broman Olsen's definition needs
>to be modified. There is a danger of becoming like Humpty Dumpty here.
>I am still waiting for your definition of any factor or feature, or
>combination of them, which distinguishes all QATALs (with or without
>WAW) from all YIQTOLs (with or without WAW and WAY-). Well, maybe this
>should be the end result of your research. But putting undefined
>labels on things is not helpful; even worse is putting labels with
>commonly understood meanings on things but quietly rejecting those
>common meanings.
>

RF
Before I comment on your words above, I will ask you for a clarification.
Your point is: He has not even given a definition so we can know the
differences between the two aspects he claims are found in Hebrew, so how
can it be meaningful to deal with "them" at all? I have already given my
definition on the list at least tvice,and I will after your answer give
another, but to see the case in perspective, I will ask you for your
definition.

To illustrate:

English preterit can be defined as events and states occuring or holding
before the vantagepoint chosen (the deictic point that often is speech
time) (RT>C). Present tense expresses events and states that are
contemporaneous with the vantage point (RT=C), and future tense expresses
events and states that occur or hold after the vantage point (C>RT). The
relationship between C and RT in each tense is semantic, i.e. it cannot be
cancelled. Aspects in English are expressed by the present participle and
the perfect tense respectively, and they can be defined in terms of a
nucleus view (the imperfective aspect) and a coda view (the perfective
aspect). The aspects are mutually exclusive; both can be combined with a
tense (e.g. "He had been drinking." +preterit, +imperfective, and +
perfective) but not as occurring simultaneously. The relationship between
the English aspects is semantic (uncancellable).


So please Peter, could you define WAYYIQTOL, YIQTOL, WEYIQTOL, QATAL, and
WEQATAL as you see them. As terms for definition you have past tense,
present tense, future tense, indicative and subjunctive mood, the
imperfective and perfective aspect (nucleus view and coda view) or the
Russian definition, discourse function etc. I really look forward to your
description of the differences between the five groups. That will benefit
the whole list.




Regards

Rolf


Rolf Furuli
University of Oslo