Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Bryan Rocine" <brocine AT earthlink.net>]

Dear John:
you wrote:
> Dear Bryan,
>
> You wrote, re.  my comment on Num 13:16:
>
> > <...>
> > It is off-the-line or "background" information in the
main
> > narrative as is the entirety of vv. 13:3b-20.  At the
same
> > time, the wayyiqtols *within* this off-the-line section
are
> > indeed sequential within the off-the-line section.
>
> You mean Moses issued the spies instructions after he sent
them off?

please...  :-/

<snip>
> the spies, but I think the context indicates this is
simply a parenthetical remark to
> explain who "Hoshea" is in the list of spies [Moses called
Hoshea . . . "Joshua"] -
> when Moses gave him his new name is unknown to us, but the
name has been used in
> direct speech as early as Exod 17:14).

parenthetical...off-the-line...What is parenthetical is
off-the-line, but I think off-the-line is a more inclusive
term.  Part of your playing hard to get, I suspect, is your
uncomfortability, not with the concepts of discourse
analysis, but with its terminology.  Grant us a terminology.
Cut us some slack.

> >
> > History does not happen linearly.  Two lines of
development
> > or ten lines of development can occur simultaneously or
> > intertwine.  Yet language is linear because the
communicator
> > can only say one thing at a time.  Linear language needs
> > mechanisms by which it can accurately talk about a
> > non-linear reality.

<snip>

> If two wayyiqtols were used you would come to the same
conclusion anyway since it's
> obvious that many wayyiqtols are overlapping in time, and
people don't need to be
> informed about separate lines of development (what exactly
is that supposed to mean,
> anyway?).

Are you serious?

Linguistically there is *need* and there is *option*.
Writers and readers don't need morpho-syntactic signals for
a separate line of development if a change in time, scene,
or cast of characters is made clear.  But the signal eases
the transition.  Since it guides, the writer may exercise
one of his options for a signal.  Also, when there is a
change in scene and/or cast of characters, we like to have
an indication of what happened time-wise.  Do the events in
one line of development (for example, with cast of
characters a and in place b) happen before, during or after
another line(with cast of characters c at place d)?

Conversely, I think any unbiased reader would agree that the
appearance of
> the glory of the Lord is sequential to the Israelites
saying that Joshua and Caleb
> should be stoned (just as wayyera' kebod YHWH is used
sequentially in Num 16:19 and
> 20:6).

So I'm biased!   ;-)   You might consider that an X-qatal
clause is not functionally equivalent with a wayyiqtol
clause, that there is more going on with the syntax than an
emphasis on an X element.  Might the X-Qatal clause signal a
break in the flow of the discourse?   It would be worth your
studying.

>Anyway, Hebrew has ways of clearly indicating simultaneity,
such as with an
> infinitive construct, or participle; X + qatal is not
needed for that.

I don't get your "not needed."  Do you mean X-qatal is not
*used* to express simultaneity?  hmmm.

>
> > Personally, I prefer not to use the term "background"
for
> > all off-the-line material because I think it connotes
"less
> > important," "less emphasized," which is often not the
case.
> > I think discourse grammarians have a special meaning for
the
> > word background that is quite appropriate, but I think
it is
> > difficult for English speakers to forget the more
common,
> > colloquial signification of the word.
>
> I think "off-line" is just as bad a characterization of
the appearance of the glory of
> the Lord  as "background."  It would be like the orchestra
in a western playing
"background music" at the appearance of the cavalry just in
time to save the settlers
from massacre.

Caricature is not a scholarly means of argument.  Anyway,
you don't like off-the-line?  how about "side trips and
stops"?   ;-)   During a tour, some of the most touching,
informative, or memorable sights are viewed on the side
trips and little stops.

Bryan



B. M. Rocine
Associate Pastor
Living Word Church
6101 Court St. Rd.
Syracuse, NY 13206

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