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Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum
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- From: Studium Biblicum Franciscanum <sbfnet AT netvision.net.il>
- To: Biblical Hebrew <b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
- Subject: Re: Sunday night
- Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 10:15:59 +0200
Title: Re: Sunday night
On 03/08/99 (Sunday night) Lloyd Barre wrote:
> Dear Associates,
>
<....>
>
> This helps us with the meaning of the Name, Interpreted from its proper
> context, it would be translated as "I am becoming what I am becoming."
> This rendering explains the use of the imperfect and of the commonly
> impersonal particle, "aser."
>
>
<....>
>
> We can draw another connection between P and Moses. There were Levitical
> priests. This is confirmed by the presence of Egyptian names among the
> Levites, like Hophni and Phineas, priest of Shiloh. They were Egyptian by
> descent and Levites, educated in Egyptian thought, as were all properly
> educated Levites. The Priestly Writer illustrates to what degree Egyptian
> and Israelite traditions become integrated. In is clear that P's Egyptian
> roots dominate his presentation within for a foreign culture. Some Levites
> were like Hophni and Phineas, some like Eli, and some like P with most
> somewhere in between.
>
> <....>
> Dear Associates,
>
>
> This helps us with the meaning of the Name, Interpreted from its proper
> context, it would be translated as "I am becoming what I am becoming."
> This rendering explains the use of the imperfect and of the commonly
> impersonal particle, "aser."
>
>
>
> We can draw another connection between P and Moses. There were Levitical
> priests. This is confirmed by the presence of Egyptian names among the
> Levites, like Hophni and Phineas, priest of Shiloh. They were Egyptian by
> descent and Levites, educated in Egyptian thought, as were all properly
> educated Levites. The Priestly Writer illustrates to what degree Egyptian
> and Israelite traditions become integrated. In is clear that P's Egyptian
> roots dominate his presentation within for a foreign culture. Some Levites
> were like Hophni and Phineas, some like Eli, and some like P with most
> somewhere in between.
>
>
It appears to me that Johannine
> Christianity has brought a Levitical tradition to the interpretation of
> Christian faith. To a personification of the Thought is now added Word and
> Spirit and supplementing and defining their ontology. Yet as products of
> Hellenistic culture, their concept is one of being rather than becoming, a
> change we can already see in the LXX translation of the Name--I am" became introductory to the declaration that God is
> an active participle used as a substantive--"Being."
> Christianity has brought a Levitical tradition to the interpretation of
> Christian faith. To a personification of the Thought is now added Word and
> Spirit and supplementing and defining their ontology. Yet as products of
> Hellenistic culture, their concept is one of being rather than becoming, a
> change we can already see in the LXX translation of the Name--I am" became introductory to the declaration that God is
> an active participle used as a substantive--"Being."
But in its
> favor, it can trace its roots back to "from the beginning," a lines can be drawn from Ptah to the Name, to E, to P, to the LXX rendering to John, particularly in the latter's allusion to Genesis 1:1, a composition based on the Memphite Theology, and on the Ego Eimi saying of John, that are based upon the LXX rendering of the Egyptian Name. Ham, Shem and Japeth are all present in the NT, and Ham, not Shem is the elder.
> favor, it can trace its roots back to "from the beginning," a lines can be drawn from Ptah to the Name, to E, to P, to the LXX rendering to John, particularly in the latter's allusion to Genesis 1:1, a composition based on the Memphite Theology, and on the Ego Eimi saying of John, that are based upon the LXX rendering of the Egyptian Name. Ham, Shem and Japeth are all present in the NT, and Ham, not Shem is the elder.
Dear Lloyd Barre,
Thank you for your kind explanations--also in a later posting of the same day.
I would comment as follows.
1) The Egyptian idea of "becoming" is the capability of assuming different shapes/beings and the power connected with them. Also the human dead in the netherworld wished and claimed to be able to become various beings or gods in order to counter danger, needs and fight enemies. I do not see anything of this kind in the Hebrew Bible or the OT, less so in the NT. On the contrary, the meaning of "being with" somebody, like the Fathers, is of course well atteted in the OT and in the NT as well. This is in my view the meaning of the Divine Name in Exod. 3:14.
2) The Egyptian names found among the Levites are interesting but of course they do not prove anything. Besides, Egyptian names are also attested in other sectors of the Israelites society.
3) The Johannine Logs is a Hellenistic term imbued with sapiential contents. The OT background of the Incarnate Logos is the Hokmah/Lady Wisdom of Proverbs 8--conceived by God before creation, God' companion during creation, men's companion after creation, personified as a majestic Lady who speaks in public, asks everybody to listen, invites to her banquet, promises and threatens in God's name. Most probably, John the Evangelist chose the term Logos instead of Sophia--that is used in other writings of the NT--because this term was common in the (Jewish-)Hellenistic world and/or was significant for his community.
BTW, the similarities that have been noted between Lady Wisdom and the Egyptian Ma`at and Isis are interesting from the point of view of the history of religion but do not affect the distinctiveness of the OT idea and of its adaptation in the NT.
4) The Ego-eimi sayings in the Gospel of John are recognized as derived from the divine declaration *'ani YHWH* "I am the Lord"--without any form of verb *hayah*, BTW.
Peace.
Alviero Niccacci
Thank you for your kind explanations--also in a later posting of the same day.
I would comment as follows.
1) The Egyptian idea of "becoming" is the capability of assuming different shapes/beings and the power connected with them. Also the human dead in the netherworld wished and claimed to be able to become various beings or gods in order to counter danger, needs and fight enemies. I do not see anything of this kind in the Hebrew Bible or the OT, less so in the NT. On the contrary, the meaning of "being with" somebody, like the Fathers, is of course well atteted in the OT and in the NT as well. This is in my view the meaning of the Divine Name in Exod. 3:14.
2) The Egyptian names found among the Levites are interesting but of course they do not prove anything. Besides, Egyptian names are also attested in other sectors of the Israelites society.
3) The Johannine Logs is a Hellenistic term imbued with sapiential contents. The OT background of the Incarnate Logos is the Hokmah/Lady Wisdom of Proverbs 8--conceived by God before creation, God' companion during creation, men's companion after creation, personified as a majestic Lady who speaks in public, asks everybody to listen, invites to her banquet, promises and threatens in God's name. Most probably, John the Evangelist chose the term Logos instead of Sophia--that is used in other writings of the NT--because this term was common in the (Jewish-)Hellenistic world and/or was significant for his community.
BTW, the similarities that have been noted between Lady Wisdom and the Egyptian Ma`at and Isis are interesting from the point of view of the history of religion but do not affect the distinctiveness of the OT idea and of its adaptation in the NT.
4) The Ego-eimi sayings in the Gospel of John are recognized as derived from the divine declaration *'ani YHWH* "I am the Lord"--without any form of verb *hayah*, BTW.
Peace.
Alviero Niccacci
Studium Biblicum Franciscanum Tel. +972 - 2 - 6282 936
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-
Sunday night,
Lloyd Barre, 03/08/1999
- <Possible follow-up(s)>
- Re: Sunday night, Studium Biblicum Franciscanum, 03/09/1999
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