Biblical Hebrew Forum

[yochanan bitan <ButhFam AT compuserve.com>]

>What do we do with the fairly sizeable body of literature which disputes,
>for good reason as far as I can see, the verbal semantics of BH?  Are all
>these writers zarim peshutim?   

they don't dispute the broad equivalency of vayyiqtol and qatal. 
if they do, they still need to learn biblical hebrew, 
also, sperber. it would break list protocol to quote what albright said
about the man.

silberman has it right there. he sounds older than i but we apparently
share a living in the text and perusing multiple layers of the
language/traditions/stages/dialects. (put me down for 25 years, studying
before that was not 'in the language' and probably did almost as much harm
as good. i mean that last statement because it took a much longer time to
listen to hebrew words naturally in speech without articificial
visualization, roots and analysis.)

defining the two whatcamacallits of the hebrew verb in a semantic world
that needs many parameters, that's a valid question. but that was not the
issue of ex 26 and 36.

as for ps 18 and sam22, that is a long knotty problem and many different
things are happening. 

in general, no, i wouldn't rely on the rsv on this passage, at least it
does not always show what is happening.
for one, because it cannot show how verbs can be played with in poetry.  

i'll do a couple for this email:

(bryan rocine wrote:)
>v. 5(Eng 4)
>The cords of death encompassed(qatal) me, 
>   the torrents of perdition assailed(yiqtol) me;

>How do you find the RSV translation?  
the rsv is like the lxx, bless their greek hearts, double aorist and all. 
it does not reflect the hebrew poetry, but then again, that would be
impossible in english.

>What is the Hebrew writer's basis for
>the choice between the qatal and yiqtol forms?  

poetic clash and intensive realism. just like jonah 2. or psalm 2.

>Why isn't the yiqtol a wayyiqtol?

because then it wouldn't have produced the poetic overlay and clash.

> v. 7(Eng 6)
> In my distress I called(yiqtol) upon the Lord; to my God I cried(yiqtol)
> for help. From his temple he heard(yiqtol) my voice, and my cry to him
> reached(yiqtol) his ears.

> Is the RSV off-base in translating these as pasts?  

yes and no. 
no, the rsv had a right to make a simple reading for an english audience.
and they may be remnants of the pre-vavhahippux prefix whatcamacallit. like
ten-dan aramaic.  but then greek had three aorists and a future!
and yes, rsv is off, their translation is not the hebrew. synchronically in
classical hebrew these would probably be read as modal proverbials, showing
what he would/should do. 
targum agrees on this verse in both ps and 2sam. 
2sam MT is a different reading altogether. the vayyiqtol is used and the
prefix TAVO is dropped from the 'b' line.

>Why, in the 2 Sam 22 version of the psalm, can the wayyiqtol vayi$ma`
substitute for the yiqtol
>yi$ma` here in Psa 18? 

substitute, yes. but, who said that it is equivalent? see above. 
lxx apparently reads a different text from MT because they use future in
2sam22, but aorist indicative at ps 18.

>  What is the so-called vav-hahippuk 'converting' in 2 Sam 22:7? 

(question doesn't make sense in hebrew.) vayyishma` here means: "and he
heard". 
vayyishma` is itself, even if it began a book.

see my article in START/JOTT 1986 on antithetical temporal parallelism.
that article comes from a paper presented in salamanca 1983 at the IOSOT.
reaction was interesting. several whose names who would know said 'thank
you for a breath of fresh air'. a couple of israelis sided with me, not
because this has anything to do with modern hebrew but because they have to
live in the text and can see this stuff, even in ugaritic.  d. michel was
there, and we were able to briefly disagree afterwards on the side. i had
already read his work, of course, but had not found it overly helpful.
actually, i found it misleading and wouldn't recommend it for students. ps
2.1-2 will illustrate what i talked about as a preview if you can't get the
article. 

at least these are real examples with fun problems. 

blessings
randall buth