[permaculture] IPC values ?
stevenlawrencehart at gmail.com
Sun Jun 14 15:05:50 EDT 2015
Thanks Andy for the encouraging reinforcements. I hope for everyone's sake
these bear fruit. I like many do look forward to the whole programme.
I do not think for one minute that it is about me "stirring the pot". My
intention is in instigating healthy debate which is long overdue and
hopefully will evolve future structures to see greater rigour and more
However my supposed subjective views based on or influenced by personal
feelings, tastes, or opinions of the key speakers is shared by others as
well. Consequently the response has been one of grave disappointment that
such a list of key note speakers, in no way reflects the promoted theme.
I remain a strong advocate and supporter of IPCs in hope that one day we
will evolve structures to invite healthy debate to build that greater
capacity, integrity and transparency...Steve Hart
On 15 June 2015 at 05:34, Andy Goldring <andyg at permaculture.org.uk> wrote:
> Hi Steve,
> It wouldn't be a traditional IPC if you weren't stirring the pot - thanks!
> I'll try and respond as briefly as I can below:
> On 14/06/15 17:14, Steve Hart wrote:
> There is an interesting discussion evolving which needs far wider debate
> and discussion to evolve more meaningful ends for greater value.
> > We welcome debate, let me know if there is somewhere else I should be
> IPC, The International Permaculture Conference has a chequered history
> but also rich diverse and valuable for we know Permaculture has
> international solutions to offer, as well as local.
> Aligned to this is the evolution of energies to move different sectors
> of Permaculture forward positively. Great work is coming out of the
> PAssocUK in these areas.
> > Thanks!
> However we still need to assess all moves and motives with clarity and
> > Agree - I'd add openness and transparency too....
> I have been personally involved in the IPC activity from the beginning
> and remain keen to continue its value and service to the greater community
> both within the fraternity and outside.
> The IPC is our flagship international event. In my opinion it deserves
> to be respected as an international event and present international issues,
> global issues, inviting a global array of presenters, including most of
> all global key note speakers.
> > totally agree
> The upcoming IPC in London is our 12th international conference. All
> conferences have been traditionally titled with the number in this case it
> will be IPC12.
> > that is true, and we retain 'the 12th International Permaculture
> Convergence' in our materials and on the website. There was a fully open
> discussion at IPC Cuba (11) and I asked if we could re-phrase as IPC UK,
> because I had been told by many that the numbering was complicated, and
> people remember places much better. The number is retained, but we are
> talking about the UK, just like everyone talked about Cuba, Jordan, etc.
> The General Assembly at the IPC in Cuba agreed that it was fine, so as far
> as I am concerned, a discussion was had, and an open decision was made -
> but clearly not very well communicated - there has as yet been no official
> report from Cuba, but that is not in our power to deliver. Interestingly,
> if you look at any international recurring event, eventually the numbering
> tails off and people use the place - eg . London Olympics - you have to
> delve quite hard to know if was the "XXX" olympics.
> Tradition has shifted or is it marketing/promotion and imaging or is it
> a diversion of focus to grandise it for personal motives ? IPCUK ? When it
> is not a UK conference, it is an international conference. It is in
> England. It is not the Permaculture conference of England or United
> Kingdom. It is our international conference, with the UK Permaculture
> association being the hosts
> > Marketing has a part to play yes. But number is retained in strapline.
> IPCUK = International Permaculture Convergence UK - so not sure that we
> have lost the international element.
> The whole IPC12 is titled IPCUK it has become an England
> marketing/promotion campaign and totally overloaded with English speakers
> > Just like there were too many Cubans or Jordanians, or Brazilians or
> Scandinavians in previous IPCs? Of course we have UK speakers, its in the
> UK. And we have speakers from all across the world. More speakers than
> Cuba, Jordan, Croatia, Malawi combined in fact. And from more countries.
> You haven't seen the programme yet because it hasn't been published. Please
> judge us when you have. We have no need to market or promote to the rest
> of the international community - we aren't selling other services or
> products, have no big axe to grind, or plans to take over. And that is
> minuted in our open and transparent minutes and reports if you want to read
> who have little or anything at all to offer the subject at any level
> let alone developing any international Permaculture solutions and debate.
> > That is a very subjective view, and unfair to the speakers who have some
> incredible skills and experience. It also suggests that the peer group of
> researchers and permaculture practitioners that reviewed all applications
> know nothing about permaculture. As far as I know they are all very well
> qualified, have made great decisions and helped us go from over 160
> suggested contributions (in an open and transparent call for contributions
> - first ever in the IPC process) to around 100. Again, why not wait until
> you have actually seen the programme before you criticise it.
> The promoted Theme of IPC12 is "*Designing* the network we want - for
> people from *around the world* using permaculture in their everyday lives
> and *communities*." So my argument is, where are the designers in the key
> note speakers ? and where is the around the world communities?. Is there
> something missing or have I missed it ? None of the key note speakers are
> designers, none have any successful design solutions. None are involved in
> developing honest design initiatives.
> > Yes there is a lot you are missing, wait to see the final programme. If
> you haven't noticed we raised £24,000 via a crowdfunder campaign to get
> people from around the world. We raised more behind the scenes and are able
> to bring 26 people from across the world, all of whom will be contributing
> to either the Conference or the Convergence. They are all permaculture
> trained and working as practitioners in many different ways.
> As mentioned we have a chequered history in these events. There has
> often been debate in whether we need an international structure with an
> entity to assist in the delivery of all things needed. Presently there is
> none. I do applaud PAssocUK for taking the initiative in a strategy to
> evolve such an entity. We need to come on board here and express our
> opinions but to ensure also they are heard and followed through.
> > Great - thanks for this encouragement - but we do not have, nor are we
> making, a proposal for an international entity. Instead we are facilitating
> a discussion and collecting data in an open and transparent way so that
> we can have a very well informed debate at IPCUK, which may lead to
> specific proposals for how we can better work together internationally,
> regionally, around education issues etc.
> We do not need agendas of self promotion.
> > totally agree
> We need a greater collective entity for the whole, for the bigger
> picture. We know Permaculture has a huge amount to offer the worlds issues
> and problems. We know we have the solutions to many if the woes. But we
> need to act accordingly, as a cohesive international entity. We need to
> feel free to voice our concerns and offer solutions.
> > agree, hence the data collection and current work to survey people
> around the world.
> I am not sure if IPC12 in London is inviting such a forum for debate and
> workshoping. There is no evidence yet that it is. But we need to develop
> it, stimulate it and maintain it to evolve the models and solutions we know
> we can offer this world.
> > Yes we are, and yes there is. If you look at the convergence programme
> you will notice that every afternoon has three sessions devoted to this
> (alongside other sessions), plus dedicated regional networking time. We are
> designing it to be a really strategic space (as well as fun with lots of
> other learning!)
> I do look forward to the stimuli
> Thanks Steve, hopefully I have clarified some matters. If there is
> anything else, please do feel free to ask. The team here in the UK, is
> absolutely at the service of the international permaculture community to
> deliver the highest quality conference and most engaging convergence we
> can, any support or ideas to help us do that better is appreciated.
> Andy Goldring
> CEO Permaculture Association
> Kia ora
> [image: Picture]
> *Steve Hart*
> *Ecology Architect*
> *Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
> Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
> and Systems Ecology.*
> Skype: tipenemanawa
> Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
> Permaculture Global Design:
> The Permaculture College of Europe.
> GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
> Best wishes
> Andy Goldring
> Chief Executive
> Find out about our 12th International Permaculture Conference in September - www.ipcuk.events
> Twitter: @andygoldring
> Skype: permaculture.coordinator
> Direct line: +44 (0)113 2307658
> Email: andyg at permaculture.org.uk
> The Permaculture Associationwww.permaculture.org.uk
> Email: office at permaculture.org.uk
> Phone: 0113 2307461
> Fax: 0113 278 1724
> Subscribe to the monthly ebulletin: www.permaculture.org.uk/ebulletin
> Postal address: BCM Permaculture Association, London, WC1N 3XX.
> The Permaculture Association is a company (05908919) and registered charity (1116699 and SC041695)
*Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
and Systems Ecology.*
Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
Permaculture Global Design:
The Permaculture College of Europe.
GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
More information about the permaculture