[permaculture] Fwd: [compost_tea]

Lawrence London lfljvenaura at gmail.com
Mon Jun 1 18:36:46 EDT 2015

Really excellent, useful information from Elaine Ingham!

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Elaine Ingham soilfoodweb at aol.com [compost_tea] <
compost_tea at yahoogroups.com>
Date: Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [compost_tea]
To: compost_tea at yahoogroups.com

 Has anyone else noticed the interesting parallels between biodynamic horn
manure prep and compost teas? (See footnote for details)

 *I'd say the parallel is with compost and horn manure prep.......... by
the time you bury a horn filled with manure in the ground, made sure there
is good moisture, and worms, protozoa, nematodes and microarthropods are
also present, for the 9 months horn manure is supposed to be in the ground,
then all the manure is very well composted by movement of all those
organisms into the manure.  The horn adds all sorts of nutrients to the
manure, if the organisms are present and functioning properly.  *

What DO should I be aiming for in my brew to maintain enough content for my
organisms at peak reproduction rate (assuming I have lots in my compost to
start with)?

*Minimum DO of 6 ppm.  Better to run above that.  Even better, be checking
hte liquid to make sure only the beneficial organisms are growing.  Do NOT
want to see ciliates, rotifers, spirilla, spirochetes, streptococci, or
yeasts.  You DO want to see lots of wide diameter, colored fungi with
uniform septa, high diversity of short to long, fat to wide rod-shaped
bacteria (the cocci will be dime a dozen), and beneficial protozoa.   *

 Why on earth does she recommend molasses?

 *Not sure what she you are referring to, but molasses ONLY if you need
more bacteria ----- which is NOT the case with most ag soils.  *

Elaine R. Ingham
President, Soil Foodweb Inc.       Soil Life Consultant
Since I travel a great deal, please consider that I may miss e-mails so if
I don't answer within 3 days, please try again.

-----Original Message-----
From: Adam Ormes Court ormus23 at gmail.com [compost_tea] <
compost_tea at yahoogroups.com>
To: compost_tea <compost_tea at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, May 17, 2015 3:54 pm
Subject: Re: [compost_tea]

     Thanks for the replies.

 To be fair there are multiple questions in what I wrote. I've tried to

 Has anyone else noticed the interesting parallels between biodynamic horn
manure prep and compost teas? (See footnote for details)

 What DO should I be aiming for in my brew to maintain enough content for
my organisms at peak reproduction rate (assuming I have lots in my compost
to start with)?

 Why on earth does she recommend molasses?

 Have you seen the intriguing results of using flowforms on DO content as
described in my link? As looks to me that if they are repeatable, this
could make contractors' jobs a lot easier.



500 - take a well-developed horn from a cow who has had a calf, fill it
full of firm and fresh cow manure. Bury it a foot or so down beneath a rich
soil over the winter. Identify the site well! Exhume it around Easter (N
Hemisphere) and, for each acre, about 50 grams of what comes out is put
into about 20 litres of water and stirred vigorously for an hour. Make sure
there are vortices one way and then the other which reach to the base of
the bucket or barrel, and interrupt them vigorously to change direction.
After stirring, take this to your land and sprinkle it over the soil. (How
many of you are thinking, "Why didn't I think of that?") 500 is sprayed
when soil cultivation is taking place and before new crops are planted. It
is thought to act primarily upon the soil and roots.

 "The roots of knowledge are bitter, but its fruit are sweet."
— Cicero, Roman Statesman (106-43BC)

 On 17 May 2015 at 20:48, John Bridges jbridgestx at yahoo.com [compost_tea] <
compost_tea at yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>    Hello Adam.
>  I remember your question and wanted to ask you back then as to just
> which of her field guides for AACT are you referring to, #1 or #2. But
> something shiny must of distracted me and I never got around to asking you.
>  Through out her works, she also gives many examples of mistakes. I can
> only assume that is what you saw, till seeing the chart in question. As
> well as the fact that she written and spoken about when teas are most
> likely to go anaerobic so many times. As well as why she doesn't like
> adding molasses. That what your referring to is yet another example of
> mistakes.
>  So many people make the mistake thinking that brewing AACT has several
> things in common with raising fish in a aquarium. Other than both involving
> ai r, water and living creatures. Everything else is mostly different.
>  But I may be able to use raising fish to answer your question.
>  How long can you keep fish alive in a ten gallon aquarium, if you turn
> off the air pump?
>  Too many variables to give a precise answer. As temperature effects it.
> As would oxygen levels when you turned off the pump. As would the same
> setup being at sea level or in Denver.
>  Mainly, it would depend on how many fish were in the aquarium.
>  If it only had a few guppies? You may not have any limits to how long
> you could "get away" without supping aeration. If you had the maximum
> number fish a ten gallon aquarium could sustain with aeration? You should
> get your aeration going again pretty fast.
>  But only looking at how they are doing will tell you for sure. Same with
> AACT, but you need a microscope to check.
>  Brewing AACT, we hope to have grown the maximum number of  aerobic
> microbes that our machines will sustain. So we don't want them spending any
> more time than is absolutely necessary, without aeration. Before getting
> them put out on our plants and in our soils.
>  For, like having a aquarium filled to its maximum holding capacity of
> all different kinds of fish. Some fish can take lower O2 levels than
> others. Same with microbes.
>  There is a source selling gallons of AACT in the Dallas/Fort Worth area.
> They claim that their tea can be held for up to 8 hours without aeration.
> The only way that is possible is if its lame tea. Or something is supplying
> the microbes oxygen. Like topping off their containers with pure oxygen,
> like so many pet stores do with buying fish. I'm pretty sure its just lame
> tea.
>  Generally it is believed that we need to get our teas put out within 4
> hours of turning off aeration. But at best, that is when our teas are
> trash. Not a practice we want to do.
>  I have seen so called professional AACT applicators with huge tanks of
> diluted tea, with no aeration. Who knows what they were thinking.
>  John Bridges
> Bridges Heritage Growers
> Keller, Texas
> In the woods & soils of the Cross Timbers
> 2012 USDA zone 8a
> AHS Heat Zone 9
> Sunset zone 33
> Dallas, Fort Worth area
>    On Sunday, May 17, 2015 6:18 AM, " Adam Ormes Court ormus23 at gmail.com
> [compost_tea]" <compost_tea at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>  I posted a question about compost teas a month ago, however nobody
> answered it...
>  Here it is again:
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  Greetings,
> My first post here.
> Have become interested in this subject through Elaine Ingham's work; for
> me it casts a very interesting light on the biodynamic horn manure
> preparation, especially given that Steiner was talking about
> vortex-stirring it in a barrel, ie oxygenating. (Biodynamicists please take
> note, I'm not being reductionistic here - I feel that there is more going
> on with the preps - but that fact in itself is very interesting.)  A friend
> and I interviewed her recently and asked about biodynamics among other
> things, so if you're interested in that you can listen to the interview
> here: http://www.needfire.info/home/interview-with-dr-elaine-ingham
> Anyway, moving swiftly on, this leads me to my question...
> I've been looking at the literature on the oxygen content of compost
> teas. In Elaine's compost tea manual, I see that the advice is not to
> allow oxygen levels to drop below 6ppm in order to prevent the development
> of anaerobic organisms. The relevant chapter features a chart showing
> oxygen levels over time as the tea brews, starting at 8ppm, and starting to
> dip after 8, to a low of about 5ppm after 19 hours and starting to recover
> thereafter. It is also stated that the tea brew used molasses and kelp -
> which in itself is a little confusing as I thought that adding molasses was
> generally not a good idea? But regardless of that, the point here is that
> the oxygen dropped below 5ppm and therefore the quality of the tea is
> likely not great as anaerobes will have had a chance to multiply.
> Therefore... I would like to know what the D.O. content of the brew ought
> to be at before the organisms start to affect it. Or is this not a simple
> equation?
> The second part of my question is regarding what happens after the brewing
> stops.
> I've yet to get a good picture of what happens once a bubbler is turned
> off. Do the organisms start to die off for lack of oxygen, or do they
> become dormant? How quickly does the quality deteriorate?
> In this context the research done into making compost teas with flowforms
> is particularly of interest to me. There is a document here
> <http://flowform.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Oxygenation-Report.pdf>
> which in its final heading documents some research done by Joel Williams at
> Laverstoke Park into the D.O. content of water put through a Flowform,
> which shows that it remained high for 8 days, which was not when it went
> down, but when he stopped taking readings. My understanding is that this is
> in stark contrast to brews made with bubblers.
> If this is true, then it would seem to me that this would be worthy of
> further investigation... have any here looked into this?
> Best,
> Adam
>   --
> "The roots of knowledge are bitter, but its fruit are sweet."
> — Cicero, Roman Statesman (106-43BC)
>  On 17 May 2015 at 06:34, Tyler Nofziger strider_gts at hotmail.com
> [compost_tea] <compost_tea at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>    I've already made and sprayed about 80,000 gallons of compost tea
> (give or take 10k gallons) in the last couple months =)
> For context, I apply agricultural applications locally.
>  ------------------------------
> To: compost_tea at yahoogroups.com
> From: compost_tea at yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 20:26:38 -0700
> Subject: Re: [compost_tea]
>   Perhaps many of us have gone "dormant" over the northern hemisphere
> cool season?
>  On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 10:36 AM, 'ROCK' rap.rem8626 at comcast.net
> [compost_tea] <compost_tea at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>  What ever happened to tea talk on this site...
>  When's the last time compost tea was mentioned...Rock
Posted by: Elaine Ingham <soilfoodweb at aol.com>
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Lawrence F. London
lfljvenaura at gmail.com
Ello: @ecoponderosa <https://ello.co/ecoponderosa>

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