[permaculture] IPC Values ?

Steve Hart stevenlawrencehart at gmail.com
Wed Jul 1 02:44:08 EDT 2015


Hi Koreen..thanks for your inputs. Just a clarification on what I said in
the first instance, quote

"The promoted  Theme of IPC12 is "*Designing* the network we want - for
people from *around the world* using permaculture in their everyday lives
and *communities*." So my argument is, where are the designers in the key
note speakers ? and where is the around the world communities?. Is there
something missing or have I missed it ? None of the key note speakers are
designers, none have any successful design solutions. None are involved in
developing honest design initiatives."

You have clearly distorted my original comment by misquoting me  "No one
giving keynotes at IPCUK is a decent designer"

Nor is my statement any use of the "ad hominem" nor a personal attack,
insults nor sword rattling.

It seems you try to offer correction to my views by way of distortion then
hypocrisy suggesting we all need to respect "people care". I am not
attacking any people in anyway I am simply asking the question where are
the designers that have the capacity needed to be key note speakers at an
international conference of this magnitude. Or am I wrong here in thinking
such a conference in fact does have magnitude ? or even deserves it ? I,
for one clearly thinks it does or at least should.

Clearly you choose to attack me personally rather than offering
constructive debate on the subject. I am not attacking Darren but he has
been the only listed Key Note speaker (since withdrawn) to respond to my
views/argument. Clearly he has taken my comment personally and also feels
attacked. That is his ownership and obviously I've hit a nerve. In my
recent reply to his responses I alluded to the fact that we clearly operate
differently in the world of Permaculture Design. I have come through the
past 40 years in the design industry as a professional and through
academia, studying working professionally and academically in the industry
of design in the land use and built environment disciplines.

Jason points out that perhaps I should be focussing my views on Geoff
Lawton who seemingly has bought his seat as KNS. Here is yet another who
does not deserve to represent the worlds of Permculture as a Designer. I
also allude to the views that we actually have a long way to go in the
world of design to achieve the levels needed to call ourselves Designers of
Permaculture. However in saying this I have seen many great individual
design elements amongst many projects through different views , media and
on the ground. I have also seen many disasters and absurd failures. Some
held up as great flagships. We all know Geoff's flagship " Greening the
Desert" and if you would like commentary on the value of that ask Scott
Pittman.

I have asked Darren to nominate what his flagships are ? with no response
so far.

Steve Hart

On 30 June 2015 at 23:20, Koreen Brennan <koreenbrennan at gmail.com> wrote:

> I agree that we need to challenge ourselves out of the weed stage, to
> constantly strive to become better designers, and to consistently challenge
> our ideas. I welcome any push to do so.  I think it is essential for the
> movement to do so in fact.
>
> But for me, stating that "No one giving keynotes at IPCUK is a decent
> designer" falls under the category of ad hominem attack. It is a
> generality, it offers no specifics as to what is wrong with any of these
> people's designs, or what specific criteria Steve is judging design ability
> on. I have my doubts that Steve has looked at many of these people's
> designs. It is difficult to respond to ad hominem attacks because there is
> no substance to them, it is a lazy way to "debate." Negative emotional
> responses are often a product of such an attack.
>
> How can we increase our capacity as designers while demonstrating the
> permaculture ethic of people care? Are personal insults and sword rattling
> really the best way we can come up with to do this?  Can we apply the
> design principles to how we treat each other? And if not, I'd like to
> respectfully ask that we at least consider using specifics when accusing
> others of incompetence, as those accusations can then be specifically
> addressed or adjudicated. And the movement and our abilities as designers
> can actually be strengthened.
>
> Best, Koreen
>
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 7:55 PM, Jason Gerhardt <jasongerhardt at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Steve,
> > I think you're barking up the wrong tree with Darren, and at least
> several
> > other of the speakers listed on the programme, of which Darren wasn't one
> > that I noticed. Not that they need anyone to defend them. I missed this
> > whole conversation while teaching a phenomenal PDC with Scott overlooking
> > the glorious Rio Grande Rift.
> >
> > I just looked at the IPC website. Geoff is on the top of the sponsors
> list.
> > I'm sure he paid for that, not that there's anything wrong with that. Are
> > you sure your problem isn't mostly with him though? His website is
> awfully,
> > um, how do you say...if you buy my films you too can learn to flip houses
> > and make a million...auto-cue melodic angel music...the savior has
> > come..and if you call right now, we'll send you TWO films for the price
> of
> > FREE! On the internet it's always 1am with no programming left somewhere.
> >
> > My point being I would hate to see Darren thrown into the same lot.
> >
> > Jason
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > www.realearthdesign.com
> >
> > 720-496-9744
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-- 
Kia ora

[image: Picture]
*Steve Hart*
*Ecology Architect*
*Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
and Systems Ecology.​*
Skype: tipenemanawa
Phone: +64 220 75 62 11

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The Permaculture College of Europe.
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