[permaculture] Permaculture or biodynamic, or agroecology/agroforestry?

DONKA RADEVA donnybg at yahoo.com
Thu Nov 13 16:18:18 EST 2014


Great, thank you for giving me this wider information! 
 
Because I really have some impressions from the EUPC14 and also from people in Bulgaria who don't want to hear about commercial. And I could understand some of the reasons why they think in that way.
Having in mind, that I am an economist and have the intention to make a science research and write about the economic effects of permaculture /more in the aspect of agriculture/, with your information in the last mail, you gave me a hope that there is a sense. :-)
 
 
Donka  


On Thursday, November 13, 2014 11:04 PM, Koreen Brennan <koreenbrennan at gmail.com> wrote:
  


I agree Donka! I didn't mean to suggest that we are against commercial enterprise, just that many permaculturists are focused on small scale urban permaculture. The number of permaculturists who have commercial farm or ranch enterprises continues to grow, and most permaculturists I know don't think it is a bad thing to make a living from ethical practices! On contrary. It's just that many have chosen to use permaculture in other ways than farming. The design principles can be used in any occupation or setting, to make that activity more regenerative.  I'm all for more permaculturists having commercial farms, and so are many others that I know, and there are a growing number of existing farmers/ranchers who use permaculture. Many of us have consulted or designed existing farms and ranches to be more regenerative and have helped them make that transition. 


On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 3:50 PM, DONKA RADEVA via permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote:

Hello from me again,
>
>Thank you very much for the detailed and valuable responses!
>They were very important for me, as the more I read in the literature, the more common things between all of the mentioned "systems" I find.
>But it is true that agroforestry and agroecology are far away of design /as far as I have read about them/ and are more "techniques" in agriculture. Biodynamics is closer to permaculture, but also for me more mystic.
>
>Do you think that permaculture if we mean its agriculture aspect is so far from commercial? I have the feeling that many permies who have farms don't want to make business, they want to be self-sustainable. But is the business in permaculture so bad? If we make as farmers business through permaculture, couldn't our communities function better, also the economics - I mean we need to exchange goods/services?
>I beleive that if you make commercial through permaculture/farms /for example/, the common health could be improved - also the economic health of the communities and through smaller communities to bigger regions? I speak very theoretical, but I hope you understand what I mean. In this way all of the elements in the life circle - visible and invisible structures could be connected and perhaps for good?
>
>
>All the best,
>
>Donka Radeva,
>Bulgaria
>
>
>
>On Thursday, November 13, 2014 9:48 PM, Scott Pittman <scott at permaculture.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>Hello Donka,
>
>Permaculture utilizes all of the techniques you describe for the
>botanical/horticultural aspect of growing and maintaining healthy plants.
>The confusion comes from thinking of permaculture as a technique for
>growing.
>
>It was decided early on in the evolution of the permaculture curriculum that
>permaculture was the contraction of "permanent culture" rather then
>permanent agriculture.  Permaculture has always been a "design system" not
>an agricultural system.
>
>Our interests are in looking at the whole system in which we live and then
>based on that holistic understanding to design a living system that sustains
>the inhabitants as well as the natural environment.  In order to do that we
>discern between the "visible" structures, such as gardening, building
>construction, water shed management/remediation, appropriate technology, and
>other land based activities, and "invisible structures" that look at the
>legal, social, and financial systems that exist in our various cultures.
>
>I think that the invisible structures are particularly relevant in today's
>world if one looks at the lack of social justice, financial inequality, and
>an increasingly more corporate legal structure.
>
>Except for Rudolf Steiner I don't believe any of the systems you mention, ie
>agroecology, and agroforestry concern themselves with design or the
>"invisible structures".
>
>While this is a brief response to your question I hope it is helpful in your
>quest for answers.
>
>Scott Pittman, Dip.
>Director
>Permaculture Institute
>
>
>
>"To change something build a new model that makes the existing model
>obsolete"  Buckminster Fuller
>-----Original Message-----
>
>
>
>From: permaculture [mailto:permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf
>Of DONKA RADEVA via permaculture
>Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 3:16 PM
>To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>Subject: [permaculture] Permaculture or biodynamic,or
>agroecology/agroforestry?
>
>Hi to all permies,
>
>I have a question which I cannot fully solve till now. As you are with a
>greater experience in permaculture, could somebody explain me what are the
>slight or bigger differences between permaculture, biodynamic agriculture,
>agroecology and agroforestry?
>I see very common things among them in the agriculture practices they offer
>to the farmers and cannot fully understand what are the main differencies?
>One is sure - all they are organic and support polyculture versus
>monoculture!
>I have seen some excellent examples of farms on permaculture principles, but
>they name themselves agroecology farms - why is that?
>
>Thanks a lot!
>
>
>Donka Radeva,
>Bulgaria
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