[permaculture] Advance notes on Permaculture Standards and Principals for NAPC

Lawrence London lfljvenaura at gmail.com
Mon Aug 18 19:34:56 EDT 2014

On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 3:21 PM, <farmer1 at gasperfarm.com> wrote:

> I havn't written this off nor accused him of anything. I can see the value
> of it and look forward to the results. I am just highlighting the downside
> risk to these things and what it may indicate about the state of the
> movement.

Maybe you could list those downside risks and how they could affect the
just to better understand what you mean. I think we are talking about a
serious effort to define Permaculture and establish standards for all
aspects of permaculture education.

Whether or not it degenerates into empire building is entirely in the
> hands of the participants, I don't know enough of the issues or the people
> involved to know.

Why would you suggest that empire building would be associated with
establishing these guidelines?

> It is just the tendency of such things.

Of what things and by what groups?

> However this comes in the context of people trying to write others out of
> the movement because they disagree with the particulars of their teachings

Establishment of standards does not imply writing those who have different
opinions out of a movement.
It seems to be a process of working together to put together the best
standards possible, for the most benefit to those participating in the

> and your own statement in your reply trying to dictate others expressions
> of permaculture in practice via ludicrous 'freedom to alienate' arguments.

What are you trying to say? What are you referring to as ludicrous?

I mean that the statement below implies that the non-circlers might want to
their preference to eliminate the circling on everyone else, which to me
presumptuous and alienating. He could have used a much better choice of
Talking about freedom and then insulting the non-circlers as being control
freaks is hypocritical,
counterproductive and could reduce attendance at the event.

> I am all about freedom. On the other hand, if
> some of us do want to stand in a circle, or hold hands, or sing songs,
> that is our right and those who prefer not to, do not have the right to
> their preference on us.

> You have a right to your own practice, but you have not right prevent
> others from offending your sensibilities.

Did I say anything like that? You can always vote with your feet.

Not that I'm going to participate in handholding and circling trees; but
> I'm not going to enforce my sensibilities on others either.

I don't think anyone suggested doing that but the statement above unjustly
implied that some
otherwise valued attendees, prejudged, might.

Lawrence F. London
lfljvenaura at gmail.com
Skype: lawrence.f.london

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